5 ms·

realistically speaking, it is likely not possible to deliver envelop from China at 75c cost, its likely someone else is paying for your 75c envelops (like taxpa

realistically speaking, it is likely not possible to deliver envelop from China at 75c cost, its likely someone else is paying for your 75c envelops (like taxpayers through subsidies).

ipsum2 2y ago
You've been downvoted, but you are 100% correct. It is the result of the UPU treaty: https://www.weforum.org/stories/2018/10/us-withdrawing-144-year-old-treaty-heres-why/ https://www.weforum.org/stories/2018/10/us-withdrawing-144-y...
- Semaphor 2y ago
  I enjoy the cheap shipping (from Aliexpress China warehouses to Germany), but I really wish this would be improved. It just seems nonsensical. There should be a closer relation to actual cost, but paying 4-5€ for a national shipment, versus essentially nothing for Chinese shipments, is mad.
  - Freak_NL 2y ago
    It gets even weirder when you consider the prices of shipping even within the EU. Within Germany? €3,50 if the seller has a good deal with DHL, within the Netherlands? €4,50 with PostNL. As a normal consumer shipping something the price goes up, and when you want to ship from the Netherlands to Germany or vice versa? €9,50 at least. Vinted seems to be the exception because of their deal with Mondial Relay, so I can order something from Italy for just €5 (but they currently exclude Germany for that feature for some reason). …meanwhile a couple of I²C light sensors, some brass book screws, a router bit or two? Free shipping because of the (whatever) deal or Ali Choice shipping, and just as fast too. Of course with Shein and Temu this isn't about cheap electronics, parts, and tools any more, but wholesale environmental destruction by fast-fashion. It wouldn't get much worse if the Chinese fashion manufacturers just shipped their wares directly to the Atacama desert. Enjoy this while it lasts Nachbar, no tariffs there for us just yet.
    - Semaphor 2y ago
      Yeah, this gets even worse within EU, I luckily am probably less affected by that than you (thanks to country size differences), but when it hits me, it surely is bad.
      - Symbiote 2y ago
        The EU was supposed to be working on improving this, to facilitate trade. It looks like they are hoping the market will improve by itself. https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/postal-services/parcel-delivery-eu/assessment-cross-border-single-piece-parcel-tariffs_en https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/postal-se...
    - dep_b 2y ago
      I remember paying 25 euro to ship a bottle of wine to somebody in Belgium while living 30 minutes away from the border (just for weight and destination, wine itself had no extra taxes). And then stuff from China appears at my doorstep almost for free? I would love to buy more from European sellers, but unless you're a serious company with deals shipping is just too expensive.
      - Freak_NL 2y ago
        Our invisible borders are quite real when it comes to shipping. It's only the really big ones like Amazon which seem to be able to negotiate lower prices across the block, and that's just depressing.
    - mytailorisrich 2y ago
      Fast fashion is what consumers want. It's just that China has a state of the art supply chain that can do it and they blew everyone else out of the water.
    - zhivota 2y ago
      It's the same for us in the US honestly, the shipping companies are ridiculous with this. Someone in my company sent me a hoodie, in a soft package, cost on it said $14.50. Ridiculous! And they don't even discount you for bringing the package to their dropbox or to a store, it's the same price for home pickup. There's just no way to economically ship things as an individual.
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    I don't think the price of those small shipments from China is necessarily crazy. Looking at flights for people: you can get a return flight to China from the UK for less than £350, which means less than £175 one way. Let's say that's about 100kg (person plus luggage) then this means that flying 100g from China to the UK costs less than 17.5p or 20c in euros. I expect that cargo will be cheaper than passenger plane, so shipping small stuff from China to Europe can indeed be very cheap. It's about volume and efficiency.
    - echoangle 2y ago
      The plane itself isn’t the only cost of shipping. Even sending a letter is more expensive, and there’s no plane involved. You have to pick it up, bring it to the airport, and deliver it to the door from the destination airport.
      - mytailorisrich 2y ago
        Obviously. This is just to illustrate that what the "real cost" is is not as obvious as what some comments suggest and that it is likely much lower.
    - owenversteeg 2y ago
      Air freight rates vary wildly by demand/bulk discounts/route/etc but $2-8/kg is typical, with a median around $4/kg. Commercial flights are often cheaper, and especially when you consider the weight of seats/water/food/crew/etc.
- Nursie 2y ago
  Yeah the outcomes here are insane - Here in Australia I can order a $10 (AUD) item from aliexpress and get free shipping from China. But as a consumer or small busines, if I want to send anything bigger than a letter within Australia it's likely to cost me way more than $10 just for the postage. It doesn't make sense and it must distort retail trade in China's favour. I'm honestly not surprised the US withdrew from that treaty, I think it needs reworking.
  - naijaboiler 2y ago
    So how are they able to deliver at such low rates and why can’t other work it out and use that as well
    - Nursie 2y ago
      Because it's subsidised or effectively subsidised by treaty - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union AFAICT it means that postal costs are only paid in the originating country, and receiving countries are still obliged to deliver.
      - Vitra 2y ago
        [dead]
      - codedokode 2y ago
        But the postal costs still have to be paid, even if it is in China (wow, 4 2-letter words starting with an "i").
        Nursie 2y ago
        Not really, no. Not at the same level. If I order a $2 item from aliexpress with free shipping, like some baseball caps I just found, nobody is paying the $10 postage fee it would cost just on shipping to send one within Australia, in China or anywhere else. Let alone the $25 it would cost to send the item the other way, back to China. The treaty distorts the cost of delivery massively in favour of countries with low internal post costs, and ends up creating absurd situations like this.

realistically speaking, it is likely not possible to deliver envelop from China at 75c cost, its likely someone else is paying for your 75c envelops (like taxpayers through subsidies).

ipsum2 2y ago

You've been downvoted, but you are 100% correct. It is the result of the UPU treaty: https://www.weforum.org/stories/2018/10/us-withdrawing-144-year-old-treaty-heres-why/ https://www.weforum.org/stories/2018/10/us-withdrawing-144-y...

Semaphor 2y ago
I enjoy the cheap shipping (from Aliexpress China warehouses to Germany), but I really wish this would be improved. It just seems nonsensical. There should be a closer relation to actual cost, but paying 4-5€ for a national shipment, versus essentially nothing for Chinese shipments, is mad.
- Freak_NL 2y ago
  It gets even weirder when you consider the prices of shipping even within the EU. Within Germany? €3,50 if the seller has a good deal with DHL, within the Netherlands? €4,50 with PostNL. As a normal consumer shipping something the price goes up, and when you want to ship from the Netherlands to Germany or vice versa? €9,50 at least. Vinted seems to be the exception because of their deal with Mondial Relay, so I can order something from Italy for just €5 (but they currently exclude Germany for that feature for some reason). …meanwhile a couple of I²C light sensors, some brass book screws, a router bit or two? Free shipping because of the (whatever) deal or Ali Choice shipping, and just as fast too. Of course with Shein and Temu this isn't about cheap electronics, parts, and tools any more, but wholesale environmental destruction by fast-fashion. It wouldn't get much worse if the Chinese fashion manufacturers just shipped their wares directly to the Atacama desert. Enjoy this while it lasts Nachbar, no tariffs there for us just yet.
  - Semaphor 2y ago
    Yeah, this gets even worse within EU, I luckily am probably less affected by that than you (thanks to country size differences), but when it hits me, it surely is bad.
    - Symbiote 2y ago
      The EU was supposed to be working on improving this, to facilitate trade. It looks like they are hoping the market will improve by itself. https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/postal-services/parcel-delivery-eu/assessment-cross-border-single-piece-parcel-tariffs_en https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/postal-se...
  - dep_b 2y ago
    I remember paying 25 euro to ship a bottle of wine to somebody in Belgium while living 30 minutes away from the border (just for weight and destination, wine itself had no extra taxes). And then stuff from China appears at my doorstep almost for free? I would love to buy more from European sellers, but unless you're a serious company with deals shipping is just too expensive.
    - Freak_NL 2y ago
      Our invisible borders are quite real when it comes to shipping. It's only the really big ones like Amazon which seem to be able to negotiate lower prices across the block, and that's just depressing.
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    Fast fashion is what consumers want. It's just that China has a state of the art supply chain that can do it and they blew everyone else out of the water.
  - zhivota 2y ago
    It's the same for us in the US honestly, the shipping companies are ridiculous with this. Someone in my company sent me a hoodie, in a soft package, cost on it said $14.50. Ridiculous! And they don't even discount you for bringing the package to their dropbox or to a store, it's the same price for home pickup. There's just no way to economically ship things as an individual.
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  I don't think the price of those small shipments from China is necessarily crazy. Looking at flights for people: you can get a return flight to China from the UK for less than £350, which means less than £175 one way. Let's say that's about 100kg (person plus luggage) then this means that flying 100g from China to the UK costs less than 17.5p or 20c in euros. I expect that cargo will be cheaper than passenger plane, so shipping small stuff from China to Europe can indeed be very cheap. It's about volume and efficiency.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    The plane itself isn’t the only cost of shipping. Even sending a letter is more expensive, and there’s no plane involved. You have to pick it up, bring it to the airport, and deliver it to the door from the destination airport.
    - mytailorisrich 2y ago
      Obviously. This is just to illustrate that what the "real cost" is is not as obvious as what some comments suggest and that it is likely much lower.
  - owenversteeg 2y ago
    Air freight rates vary wildly by demand/bulk discounts/route/etc but $2-8/kg is typical, with a median around $4/kg. Commercial flights are often cheaper, and especially when you consider the weight of seats/water/food/crew/etc.
Nursie 2y ago
Yeah the outcomes here are insane - Here in Australia I can order a $10 (AUD) item from aliexpress and get free shipping from China. But as a consumer or small busines, if I want to send anything bigger than a letter within Australia it's likely to cost me way more than $10 just for the postage. It doesn't make sense and it must distort retail trade in China's favour. I'm honestly not surprised the US withdrew from that treaty, I think it needs reworking.
- naijaboiler 2y ago
  So how are they able to deliver at such low rates and why can’t other work it out and use that as well
  - Nursie 2y ago
    Because it's subsidised or effectively subsidised by treaty - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union AFAICT it means that postal costs are only paid in the originating country, and receiving countries are still obliged to deliver.
    - Vitra 2y ago
      [dead]
    - codedokode 2y ago
      But the postal costs still have to be paid, even if it is in China (wow, 4 2-letter words starting with an "i").
      - Nursie 2y ago
        Not really, no. Not at the same level. If I order a $2 item from aliexpress with free shipping, like some baseball caps I just found, nobody is paying the $10 postage fee it would cost just on shipping to send one within Australia, in China or anywhere else. Let alone the $25 it would cost to send the item the other way, back to China. The treaty distorts the cost of delivery massively in favour of countries with low internal post costs, and ends up creating absurd situations like this.