4 ms·

Less cheap junk flowing into the US sounds like a win to me. Maybe clothes should be more expensive and better quality.

by linotype 2y ago

Eduard 2y ago
Also less affordable electronics
- meowkit 2y ago
  There is also an argument that we should have fewer electronics too…
  - roxolotl 2y ago
    It is very interesting how if there was a genuine attempt at degrowth this is potentially a good start.
    - thawtxp 2y ago
      [dead]
    - mrguyorama 2y ago
      It sure is funny how the party that has spent 2 decades screaming at anyone they could that "climate change isn't real" and "the people saying we should output less carbon are REALLY just degrowth cultists and we can consume everything forever with no issues" are outright, willfully, destroying the American economy in such a way that average americans WILL have to consume less
  - mcphage 2y ago
    Too bad that’s not the argument being made by people pushing the current policies, instead of the idea that this will magically lead to us having more and better things.
  - EasyMark 2y ago
    I don't think so. There is an argument for -individuals- buying too much electronics and they should revisit that, but it's not anyone's business other those people. Tanking the economy and destroying lives "just becuz consumers" is a really really bad way to run the country. Just giving back and going back to horse and buggy while China eats your lunch is not a good thing, because soon you will be making "cheap trinkets" for them
- linotype 2y ago
  Even more important in creating a more closed loop system with less waste. Some Android phones are e-waste before they hit a year or two.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  Tangent. I got into building hi-fi tube amplifiers some years back. Part of it was a kind of nostalgia for the days of Heath-Kit which I am only just old enough to remember the company's sunsetting years. It was a fun few years deep-diving into the various amplifier topologies, buying NOS vacuum tubes on eBay, looking through electronics flea markets for parts. I made several amps, tried different tubes, topologies.... Eventually I settled on a small stereo amp and designed a PCB for it, created a small kit even. Using a drill press in the garage, a table saw to cut aluminum sheet stock down, even learning to powder-coat parts in a toaster-oven I picked up from Walmart, I made increasingly nicer looking amps. With two large output transformers and an even large power transformer they were fairly heavy beasts. Nonetheless, though I built them a decade or more ago, every one of the amplifiers I built are still in use today. The music I am listening to at this moment is coming from one. Another is down in my "lab". I have given several away to friends, co-workers in the past. I guess the reason for the tangent was to say that I did indeed find that when you have (or make) a thing of real quality it can last … perhaps a life time? And thinking again a little nostalgically, I like that too about electronics just up to the post-modern era: a new electronics purchase might have cost you a paycheck or two, but you got I think more mileage out of that device. EDIT: come to think of it, the heavy iron transformers are from the U.S., the tubes NOS from U.S. WWII bombers. I didn't built them of course with tariffs in mind, but surprisingly they are not so cost-dependent on overseas suppliers. And here's a photo of the finished amp (from when I once considered selling the kits): https://imgur.com/PBKOQMk https://imgur.com/PBKOQMk
  - beepboopboop 2y ago
    Thanks for sharing, that’s really cool and something I wish I had the time/skill/patience for. The amp looks great and love the name - might have to dust off the tools for a “Now and Then” model.
tananaev 2y ago
Now I need to pay 10x for a USB cable, a charger etc.
- jgyter 2y ago
  [flagged]
- ryao 2y ago
  Monoprice has low cost cables.
  - markrages 2y ago
    ...for now.
  - ipsum2 2y ago
    Monoprice cables are made in China. They'll also cost 10x.
    - bigiain 1y ago
      I'm not certain, but I suspect this'll work out better for Monoprice than it does for individuals. I _think_ Monoprice will pay the couple of hundred dollars "per package" fees for the pallet or container full of cables they bring in, amortising that cost over thousands of items. They'll still get charged the 145% tariff though, but they'll probably cost something like 3x rather than 10x. (Until they work out that they no longer compete with individuals buying from AliExpress/Temu/Shein, or probably even with side hustle Fulfilment by Amazon micro-importers).
maxerickson 2y ago
At least we can rest assured that they will be more expensive.
alabastervlog 2y ago
I already buy a lot of clothes at least partially made in OECD states. Even with that “partially” doing a lot of work and my avoiding paying extra for “fancy” brand names… I don’t think Americans earning closer to median household income are gonna be happy about paying the kind of prices I pay.
nebula8804 2y ago
Here you go: enjoy your $120 American jeans: https://originusa.com/collections/jeans https://originusa.com/collections/jeans (Oh look its on sale 20$ off...yay :/ ) The sale discount is the entire amount I was able to buy my non American jeans for. :/ I guess I can make due with one pair for the week...or wash them each day(oh wait thats gotten more expensive as well).
- k4rli 2y ago
  Proper jeans aren't really washed more than once a month or at all. Especially every day. They also will last for years therefore buying 1-3 pairs a year means your wardrobe will have plenty. Maybe local production will get cheaper once more people start keeping their money in local communities. Sending it to China is just awful for your country/region and kills local businesses. Disclaimer: from Europe so I don't care about USA at all. It's still having the same effect here
  - runako 2y ago
    > Maybe local production will get cheaper once more people start keeping their money in local communities. Is the thinking here that increased scale would allow production to get cheaper? How would this account for the fact that production was scaled here, but was not cost-competitive when it was operating at scale? What's different now?
    - buzer 2y ago
      Let's say currently it costs $15 to make thing 1m units of X in China and $50 to make 10k of them in the USA. USA could be scaled to make 50k of them for $40 and 100k for $30. 1m could cost like $25. There are people for who are ready to pay more for local products so the current production volume makes sense, but majority of people will go for cheaper option when given the chance so it doesn't make sense to scale up the production currently. If the import cost of the item goes above local production cost and there is still enough demand for the item, it can make sense to scale up that production even if you cannot compete with the China made things internationally. Of course that assumes your own costs (like raw materials) do not increase at least on the same scale and that you can rely on the situation being long-term thing (i.e. will last years rather than weeks) as costs include your CapEx on things like new machines.
EasyMark 2y ago
the thing is that life is about freedom of choice, I didn't buy they cheap junk, I'm fairly normal. I might be the occasional hobby board off alibaba express a couple times a year. Choice is good, not bad.
LaundroMat 2y ago
Maybe the law should impose quality and environmental standards instead of tariffs. But no, that would hurt domestic businesses.
mytailorisrich 2y ago
The market does what people want. Fast fashion is exactly what people want because fashion has always been changing fast and about the "new thing" and people like to be able to buy new stuff all the time.

Less cheap junk flowing into the US sounds like a win to me. Maybe clothes should be more expensive and better quality.

Eduard 2y ago

Also less affordable electronics

meowkit 2y ago
There is also an argument that we should have fewer electronics too…
- roxolotl 2y ago
  It is very interesting how if there was a genuine attempt at degrowth this is potentially a good start.
  - thawtxp 2y ago
    [dead]
  - mrguyorama 2y ago
    It sure is funny how the party that has spent 2 decades screaming at anyone they could that "climate change isn't real" and "the people saying we should output less carbon are REALLY just degrowth cultists and we can consume everything forever with no issues" are outright, willfully, destroying the American economy in such a way that average americans WILL have to consume less
- mcphage 2y ago
  Too bad that’s not the argument being made by people pushing the current policies, instead of the idea that this will magically lead to us having more and better things.
- EasyMark 2y ago
  I don't think so. There is an argument for -individuals- buying too much electronics and they should revisit that, but it's not anyone's business other those people. Tanking the economy and destroying lives "just becuz consumers" is a really really bad way to run the country. Just giving back and going back to horse and buggy while China eats your lunch is not a good thing, because soon you will be making "cheap trinkets" for them
linotype 2y ago
Even more important in creating a more closed loop system with less waste. Some Android phones are e-waste before they hit a year or two.
JKCalhoun 2y ago
Tangent. I got into building hi-fi tube amplifiers some years back. Part of it was a kind of nostalgia for the days of Heath-Kit which I am only just old enough to remember the company's sunsetting years. It was a fun few years deep-diving into the various amplifier topologies, buying NOS vacuum tubes on eBay, looking through electronics flea markets for parts. I made several amps, tried different tubes, topologies.... Eventually I settled on a small stereo amp and designed a PCB for it, created a small kit even. Using a drill press in the garage, a table saw to cut aluminum sheet stock down, even learning to powder-coat parts in a toaster-oven I picked up from Walmart, I made increasingly nicer looking amps. With two large output transformers and an even large power transformer they were fairly heavy beasts. Nonetheless, though I built them a decade or more ago, every one of the amplifiers I built are still in use today. The music I am listening to at this moment is coming from one. Another is down in my "lab". I have given several away to friends, co-workers in the past. I guess the reason for the tangent was to say that I did indeed find that when you have (or make) a thing of real quality it can last … perhaps a life time? And thinking again a little nostalgically, I like that too about electronics just up to the post-modern era: a new electronics purchase might have cost you a paycheck or two, but you got I think more mileage out of that device. EDIT: come to think of it, the heavy iron transformers are from the U.S., the tubes NOS from U.S. WWII bombers. I didn't built them of course with tariffs in mind, but surprisingly they are not so cost-dependent on overseas suppliers. And here's a photo of the finished amp (from when I once considered selling the kits): https://imgur.com/PBKOQMk https://imgur.com/PBKOQMk
- beepboopboop 2y ago
  Thanks for sharing, that’s really cool and something I wish I had the time/skill/patience for. The amp looks great and love the name - might have to dust off the tools for a “Now and Then” model.

tananaev 2y ago

Now I need to pay 10x for a USB cable, a charger etc.

jgyter 2y ago
[flagged]
ryao 2y ago
Monoprice has low cost cables.
- markrages 2y ago
  ...for now.
- ipsum2 2y ago
  Monoprice cables are made in China. They'll also cost 10x.
  - bigiain 1y ago
    I'm not certain, but I suspect this'll work out better for Monoprice than it does for individuals. I _think_ Monoprice will pay the couple of hundred dollars "per package" fees for the pallet or container full of cables they bring in, amortising that cost over thousands of items. They'll still get charged the 145% tariff though, but they'll probably cost something like 3x rather than 10x. (Until they work out that they no longer compete with individuals buying from AliExpress/Temu/Shein, or probably even with side hustle Fulfilment by Amazon micro-importers).

maxerickson 2y ago

At least we can rest assured that they will be more expensive.

alabastervlog 2y ago

I already buy a lot of clothes at least partially made in OECD states. Even with that “partially” doing a lot of work and my avoiding paying extra for “fancy” brand names… I don’t think Americans earning closer to median household income are gonna be happy about paying the kind of prices I pay.

nebula8804 2y ago

Here you go: enjoy your $120 American jeans: https://originusa.com/collections/jeans https://originusa.com/collections/jeans (Oh look its on sale 20$ off...yay :/ ) The sale discount is the entire amount I was able to buy my non American jeans for. :/ I guess I can make due with one pair for the week...or wash them each day(oh wait thats gotten more expensive as well).

k4rli 2y ago
Proper jeans aren't really washed more than once a month or at all. Especially every day. They also will last for years therefore buying 1-3 pairs a year means your wardrobe will have plenty. Maybe local production will get cheaper once more people start keeping their money in local communities. Sending it to China is just awful for your country/region and kills local businesses. Disclaimer: from Europe so I don't care about USA at all. It's still having the same effect here
- runako 2y ago
  > Maybe local production will get cheaper once more people start keeping their money in local communities. Is the thinking here that increased scale would allow production to get cheaper? How would this account for the fact that production was scaled here, but was not cost-competitive when it was operating at scale? What's different now?
  - buzer 2y ago
    Let's say currently it costs $15 to make thing 1m units of X in China and $50 to make 10k of them in the USA. USA could be scaled to make 50k of them for $40 and 100k for $30. 1m could cost like $25. There are people for who are ready to pay more for local products so the current production volume makes sense, but majority of people will go for cheaper option when given the chance so it doesn't make sense to scale up the production currently. If the import cost of the item goes above local production cost and there is still enough demand for the item, it can make sense to scale up that production even if you cannot compete with the China made things internationally. Of course that assumes your own costs (like raw materials) do not increase at least on the same scale and that you can rely on the situation being long-term thing (i.e. will last years rather than weeks) as costs include your CapEx on things like new machines.

EasyMark 2y ago

the thing is that life is about freedom of choice, I didn't buy they cheap junk, I'm fairly normal. I might be the occasional hobby board off alibaba express a couple times a year. Choice is good, not bad.

LaundroMat 2y ago

Maybe the law should impose quality and environmental standards instead of tariffs. But no, that would hurt domestic businesses.

mytailorisrich 2y ago

The market does what people want. Fast fashion is exactly what people want because fashion has always been changing fast and about the "new thing" and people like to be able to buy new stuff all the time.