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They were occupied by the British, you said it yourself. They had no right to "split" anything. Muslims and Jews lived in Palestine pre european occupation just

They were occupied by the British, you said it yourself. They had no right to "split" anything. Muslims and Jews lived in Palestine pre european occupation just fine. The present day "Middle East" (a colonialist term) is carved out by european colonilism through sykes-picot. The plan to occupy Palestine started way before 48.

reissbaker 2y ago
The British didn't split anything; the U.N. did. Who do you think has the right to draw country borders other than the U.N.? There was no "Palestine" on a map prior to the British: it was the Ottoman Empire, and there wasn't even a region or subdivision of it that mapped to the current or British-era borders, and the Ottomans themselves were oppressive colonizers. Do you demand that the Turks be given control? Where do you stop? Perhaps the Greeks should be given control of all of Turkey, and take back the Hagia Sophia; after all, it was theirs first. And who, pray tell, lived in the land of Israel before the Islamic conquests, and before Roman imperialism...? As for Jews supposedly being able to live in peace prior to the British — you are once again incorrect. Jews were considered dhimmis, with various insane accompanying laws: Jews were legally required to dismount horses/donkeys and simply walk whenever any random Muslim passerby demanded it; a Muslim man could take a Jewish woman as a wife, but if a Jewish man tried to marry a Muslim woman he would be killed; Jewish orphans were systematically taken from the Jewish community by law and raised as Muslims — in fact, this is legally genocidal! — and in parts of the Ottoman Empire, the "Dung Gatherer's Decree" mandated that Jews clean the literal poop from Muslim sewers; in other parts they were forbidden from wearing shoes; Jews were killed in massacres by the thousands and synagogues burned; and of course, there's the famous Benny Morris quote from the 19th century in Jerusalem: I have seen a little fellow of six years old, with a troop of fat toddlers of only three and four, teaching [them] to throw stones at a Jew, and one little urchin would, with the greatest coolness, waddle up to the man and literally spit upon his Jewish gaberdine. To all this the Jew is obliged to submit; it would be more than his life was worth to offer to strike a Mohammedan. Naturally the Jews were not eager to return to this state of affairs. And so just as India and Pakistan were created out of British India, Israel and Palestine were attempted to be created out of the British Mandate. The Muslim residents were very eager to return to the prior state of affairs, refused partition, invaded, and... lost. And again; most of their territory was taken by Egypt and Jordan, not Israel.
- za3faran 2y ago
  The UN that is controlled by western colonialist nations? That one has the right to draw borders? LOL. Are you aware of Sykes Picot and Balfour? Are you aware that this has been planned for a long time now, since at least 1899[1]? There most definitely was a region, and it was called Palestine[2]. As I mentioned elsewhere, Muslim Caliphates do not erode or destroy the local culture, they embrace it. The Ottomans were Muslims, we're one people. We don't have racist ideologies. It's interesting seeing these lies made up, or deliberate misinformation. The word "dhimmi" means one who is under the protection of another. The rights of dhimmis are protected, they can rule with their own laws among each other. No, a Jew was not legally required to dismount whenever a Muslim passed by - this is not Islamic law. Islamic law permits Muslim men to marry Christian or Jewish women, but Muslim women are not allowed to marry non-Muslim men; this has nothing to do with Jews. And it wouldn't be allowed in the first place, so he wouldn't be "killed" - no idea where you're getting your information from. The rest of the post is completely un-Islamic, and sounds fabricated. Maybe you should ask Jewish historian Shelomo Dov Goitein why he said that Jews lived well under the Muslims; maybe he knows something you don't, and he was not affected by fabricated narratives. To summarize, Islam rejects the Sykes Picot/Balfour borders between Muslim nations. What is happening today is a direct consequence of WWI. This is why Muslims are calling for a Caliphate to unite all Muslims, something that the west desperately tries to fight. [1] https://imgur.com/a/BlTdfKy https://imgur.com/a/BlTdfKy [2] https://imgur.com/a/jSMLBiZ https://imgur.com/a/jSMLBiZ
  - reissbaker 2y ago
    No, a Jew was not legally required to dismount whenever a Muslim passed by Wrong. https://katz.sas.upenn.edu/resources/blog/what-do-you-know-dhimmi-jewish-legal-status-under-muslim-rule https://katz.sas.upenn.edu/resources/blog/what-do-you-know-d... And I notice you didn't even try to refute the existence of the Dung Gatherer decree, or the mass murders and synagogue burning. Plenty of massacres prior to 1899, if you're clinging to that as a magic number to justify atrocities carried out against Jews under the Ottomans. There was a region, it was called Palestine. Here are the administrative subdivisions of the Ottoman Empire as of 1899: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_the_Ottoman_Empire#/media/File%3AOttoman_Empire_Administrative_Divisions.png https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_... As you can clearly see, there was no subdivision that cleanly mapped to the currently-existing region of Israel or Palestine. That region was created by the British, as "Mandatory Palestine." Islam rejects the Sykes Picot/Balfour borders between Muslim nations. What is happening today is a direct consequence of WWI. This is why Muslims are calling for a Caliphate to unite all Muslims, something that the west desperately tries to fight. Sorry, but Islam does not decree to the rest of the world what borders are, and certainly not moreso than the U.N. Demanding that you're able to draw whatever borders you like and invade anyone who disagrees is what has continued this conflict for 77 years — which your side has continually lost, over and over again, with pointless bloodshed. No one wants to live under your caliphate. Many countries had their borders change after WW1, and WW2, and — oh well, they changed, people adapt and live with it. colonizers Lmao. Where do you think you got Istanbul from? Do you recall that it once had a different name — does "Constantinople" ring a bell? The pot is calling the kettle black here.

reissbaker 2y ago

The British didn't split anything; the U.N. did. Who do you think has the right to draw country borders other than the U.N.? There was no "Palestine" on a map prior to the British: it was the Ottoman Empire, and there wasn't even a region or subdivision of it that mapped to the current or British-era borders, and the Ottomans themselves were oppressive colonizers. Do you demand that the Turks be given control? Where do you stop? Perhaps the Greeks should be given control of all of Turkey, and take back the Hagia Sophia; after all, it was theirs first. And who, pray tell, lived in the land of Israel before the Islamic conquests, and before Roman imperialism...? As for Jews supposedly being able to live in peace prior to the British — you are once again incorrect. Jews were considered dhimmis, with various insane accompanying laws: Jews were legally required to dismount horses/donkeys and simply walk whenever any random Muslim passerby demanded it; a Muslim man could take a Jewish woman as a wife, but if a Jewish man tried to marry a Muslim woman he would be killed; Jewish orphans were systematically taken from the Jewish community by law and raised as Muslims — in fact, this is legally genocidal! — and in parts of the Ottoman Empire, the "Dung Gatherer's Decree" mandated that Jews clean the literal poop from Muslim sewers; in other parts they were forbidden from wearing shoes; Jews were killed in massacres by the thousands and synagogues burned; and of course, there's the famous Benny Morris quote from the 19th century in Jerusalem: I have seen a little fellow of six years old, with a troop of fat toddlers of only three and four, teaching [them] to throw stones at a Jew, and one little urchin would, with the greatest coolness, waddle up to the man and literally spit upon his Jewish gaberdine. To all this the Jew is obliged to submit; it would be more than his life was worth to offer to strike a Mohammedan. Naturally the Jews were not eager to return to this state of affairs. And so just as India and Pakistan were created out of British India, Israel and Palestine were attempted to be created out of the British Mandate. The Muslim residents were very eager to return to the prior state of affairs, refused partition, invaded, and... lost. And again; most of their territory was taken by Egypt and Jordan, not Israel.

za3faran 2y ago
The UN that is controlled by western colonialist nations? That one has the right to draw borders? LOL. Are you aware of Sykes Picot and Balfour? Are you aware that this has been planned for a long time now, since at least 1899[1]? There most definitely was a region, and it was called Palestine[2]. As I mentioned elsewhere, Muslim Caliphates do not erode or destroy the local culture, they embrace it. The Ottomans were Muslims, we're one people. We don't have racist ideologies. It's interesting seeing these lies made up, or deliberate misinformation. The word "dhimmi" means one who is under the protection of another. The rights of dhimmis are protected, they can rule with their own laws among each other. No, a Jew was not legally required to dismount whenever a Muslim passed by - this is not Islamic law. Islamic law permits Muslim men to marry Christian or Jewish women, but Muslim women are not allowed to marry non-Muslim men; this has nothing to do with Jews. And it wouldn't be allowed in the first place, so he wouldn't be "killed" - no idea where you're getting your information from. The rest of the post is completely un-Islamic, and sounds fabricated. Maybe you should ask Jewish historian Shelomo Dov Goitein why he said that Jews lived well under the Muslims; maybe he knows something you don't, and he was not affected by fabricated narratives. To summarize, Islam rejects the Sykes Picot/Balfour borders between Muslim nations. What is happening today is a direct consequence of WWI. This is why Muslims are calling for a Caliphate to unite all Muslims, something that the west desperately tries to fight. [1] https://imgur.com/a/BlTdfKy https://imgur.com/a/BlTdfKy [2] https://imgur.com/a/jSMLBiZ https://imgur.com/a/jSMLBiZ
- reissbaker 2y ago
  No, a Jew was not legally required to dismount whenever a Muslim passed by Wrong. https://katz.sas.upenn.edu/resources/blog/what-do-you-know-dhimmi-jewish-legal-status-under-muslim-rule https://katz.sas.upenn.edu/resources/blog/what-do-you-know-d... And I notice you didn't even try to refute the existence of the Dung Gatherer decree, or the mass murders and synagogue burning. Plenty of massacres prior to 1899, if you're clinging to that as a magic number to justify atrocities carried out against Jews under the Ottomans. There was a region, it was called Palestine. Here are the administrative subdivisions of the Ottoman Empire as of 1899: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_the_Ottoman_Empire#/media/File%3AOttoman_Empire_Administrative_Divisions.png https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_... As you can clearly see, there was no subdivision that cleanly mapped to the currently-existing region of Israel or Palestine. That region was created by the British, as "Mandatory Palestine." Islam rejects the Sykes Picot/Balfour borders between Muslim nations. What is happening today is a direct consequence of WWI. This is why Muslims are calling for a Caliphate to unite all Muslims, something that the west desperately tries to fight. Sorry, but Islam does not decree to the rest of the world what borders are, and certainly not moreso than the U.N. Demanding that you're able to draw whatever borders you like and invade anyone who disagrees is what has continued this conflict for 77 years — which your side has continually lost, over and over again, with pointless bloodshed. No one wants to live under your caliphate. Many countries had their borders change after WW1, and WW2, and — oh well, they changed, people adapt and live with it. colonizers Lmao. Where do you think you got Istanbul from? Do you recall that it once had a different name — does "Constantinople" ring a bell? The pot is calling the kettle black here.