4 ms·

Yeah, I must be hallucinating with "bullshit in my head". https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00240-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00240-9

by cm2187 2y ago

Yeah, I must be hallucinating with "bullshit in my head". https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00240-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00240-9 https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/black-lives-matter-oxford-will-decolonise-degrees-c7dkhbtnd https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/black-lives-ma... https://www.maths.ox.ac.uk/node/70845 https://www.maths.ox.ac.uk/node/70845

Symbiote 2y ago
Would you like to further colonise mathematics? Algebra could be renamed Chestering, to credit the Englishman who did the real work of translating Al-Khwarizmi's text from Arabic into Latin.
- pqtyw 2y ago
  Well you do have a point. It would be absurd. Just like the opposite. Both decolonizing and "further" colonizing maths makes no sense and is a waste of time at best...
- breppp 2y ago
  Is colonizing now a synonym for cultural fusion? Surely the arabs have been colonizing mathematics by translating the indigenous greek works
  - defrost 2y ago
    The arabs of the Abbasid Caliphate braided a rope by unifying Greek, Babylonian, and Indian mathematical and scientific works after translating original works into Arabic and extending them.
    - breppp 2y ago
      As well as everyone else, why is it colonizing when the west do it to arabic mathematics and not when the arabs do it to western mathematics? That argument is rather weird as mathematics was never about culture, but rather about logical truth
      - Symbiote 2y ago
        Since my example was apparently poorly chosen due to my own ignorance, and you're finding it worthwhile to have this discussion, I'll conclude that studying mathematical history ("decolonizing mathematics") is useful.
thrance 2y ago
You should really read those articles that you linked instead of ignorantly pointing at them in outrage, against something you clearly never engaged with other than through conservative media. At least read the Nature one, damn. It's directly addressed to people like you, who might think they have issues with this stuff, for reasons. No one is out to cancel theorems or whatever other bullshit. Also those concerns over the freedom of science are rich coming from the party that's actually defunding labs, arresting researchers on ideological grounds and burning books.
- ConspiracyFact 2y ago
  I read the article. It's dangerous nonsense.
  - defrost 2y ago
    Where's the danger? Where's the nonsense in acknowledging the origins of algebra?
    - breppp 2y ago
      It's dangerous because of post colonialism and earlier post structuralism is in its basis. That philosophical school sees truth as being a fantasy and subservient to power. Therefore it is common for an adherent of post-colonialism to believe a statement is true if it was made by a person arbitrarily considered oppressed, while the same logic might be false if made by an 'oppressor'. As this approach makes all science to be political effort before a discovery effort, it was highly successful in the highly political environment of the academics, as it also has highly favorable economical results for its followers. (New departments, ability to religiously outcast the old, new postions) The problem as it reaches the hard sciences, for example the religious sacrifice each ML paper needs to make to the gods of ethics, is that it assaults the very notion of truth by its very essence. It is easy to see why this is highly problematic for mathematics
      - thrance 2y ago

by cm2187 2y ago

Symbiote 2y ago

Would you like to further colonise mathematics? Algebra could be renamed Chestering, to credit the Englishman who did the real work of translating Al-Khwarizmi's text from Arabic into Latin.

pqtyw 2y ago
Well you do have a point. It would be absurd. Just like the opposite. Both decolonizing and "further" colonizing maths makes no sense and is a waste of time at best...
breppp 2y ago
Is colonizing now a synonym for cultural fusion? Surely the arabs have been colonizing mathematics by translating the indigenous greek works
- defrost 2y ago
  The arabs of the Abbasid Caliphate braided a rope by unifying Greek, Babylonian, and Indian mathematical and scientific works after translating original works into Arabic and extending them.
  - breppp 2y ago
    As well as everyone else, why is it colonizing when the west do it to arabic mathematics and not when the arabs do it to western mathematics? That argument is rather weird as mathematics was never about culture, but rather about logical truth
    - Symbiote 2y ago
      Since my example was apparently poorly chosen due to my own ignorance, and you're finding it worthwhile to have this discussion, I'll conclude that studying mathematical history ("decolonizing mathematics") is useful.

thrance 2y ago

You should really read those articles that you linked instead of ignorantly pointing at them in outrage, against something you clearly never engaged with other than through conservative media. At least read the Nature one, damn. It's directly addressed to people like you, who might think they have issues with this stuff, for reasons. No one is out to cancel theorems or whatever other bullshit. Also those concerns over the freedom of science are rich coming from the party that's actually defunding labs, arresting researchers on ideological grounds and burning books.

ConspiracyFact 2y ago
I read the article. It's dangerous nonsense.
- defrost 2y ago
  Where's the danger? Where's the nonsense in acknowledging the origins of algebra?
  - breppp 2y ago
    It's dangerous because of post colonialism and earlier post structuralism is in its basis. That philosophical school sees truth as being a fantasy and subservient to power. Therefore it is common for an adherent of post-colonialism to believe a statement is true if it was made by a person arbitrarily considered oppressed, while the same logic might be false if made by an 'oppressor'. As this approach makes all science to be political effort before a discovery effort, it was highly successful in the highly political environment of the academics, as it also has highly favorable economical results for its followers. (New departments, ability to religiously outcast the old, new postions) The problem as it reaches the hard sciences, for example the religious sacrifice each ML paper needs to make to the gods of ethics, is that it assaults the very notion of truth by its very essence. It is easy to see why this is highly problematic for mathematics
    - thrance 2y ago