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The point of no return is Trump getting a third term. The parallels are strong there. I was just thinking this morning that we very much needed the USA's help
by ghusto 2y ago
The point of no return is Trump getting a third term. The parallels are strong there.
I was just thinking this morning that we very much needed the USA's help fighting Nazi Germany, but who will we turn to when we're fighting fascists coming from the East _and_ West? (Russia and the USA)
- School-Cotton 2y agoWhat is your definition of "fascists"? Edit to explain my point, because I'm getting downvoted (which I don't care about, but I _do_ care if people don't understand my point): fascism was a specific ideology/movement in the 20th century that, other than being right-wing and authoritarian, doesn't bear much resemblance to right-wing authoritarianism today: they have different goals, different motives, promote different policies, etc. It seems people just use "fascism" as a synonym for "destructive right-wing populism" or even just "bad". And I agree that things like the MAGA movement, or AfD in Germany, ARE bad, and one could even argue that they are just as bad as historical fascism. But I don't think we should use "fascism" in this way, because it gives ammo to your opponents: the supporters of these right-wing movements can point out that indeed, they are not the same as historical fascism and make you look silly.
- vel0city 2y agoThe opening passage of the Wikipedia article: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right [checks box], authoritarian [ignoring courts decisions, sending people to prisons without any due process; check], and ultranationalist [MAGA, american exceptionalism, etc; check] political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader [do I really need to explain; check], centralized autocracy [feckless GOP congress, EOs left and right; check], militarism, forcible suppression of opposition [J6, anyone? also see Maine and TFA and the law firms being blacklisted and more; check], belief in a natural social hierarchy [pro-life, shrouded in "traditional family values", anti-gay, anti-trans, etc; check], subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race [tariffs, massive deportations without due process, etc; check], and strong regimentation of society and the economy [bathroom bills, tariff policies with exceptions for those who bribe him with million dollar dinner purchases, etc; check]. Tell me how this doesn't fit?
- mariusor 2y agoI feel like most people that are using the term deliberately, are doing so based on reasoning close to Umberto Eco's "Ur-fascism" essay: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fasci... If you want something more modern, someone made a tracker: https://www.realtimefascism.com/ https://www.realtimefascism.com/ The tracker uses "the 14 characteristics of fascism identified by Dr. Lawrence Britt" (which is slightly different): https://osbcontent.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/PC-00466.pdf https://osbcontent.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/PC-00466.pdf
- pqtyw 2y ago> historical fascism I mean.. Mussolini's Italy or 30s Austria weren't exactly Nazi Germany. So while there still might be some way to go the comparison is not that extreme. Equating Trump with Hitler is of course a stretch. Mussolini however? Well..
- ghusto 2y agoI get what you mean, and I understand the frustration. We should be more careful with words for exactly the reason you say at the end. Having said that, the reason I chose to use it here was because I felt it was time, i.e. it has finally become earned. I could defend the usage with anyone who brought that up (and someone's done a thorough job in one of the replies).
- worik 2y ago> who will we turn to when we're fighting fascists coming from the East _and_ West? (Russia and the USA) Like a heart attack can be good for your health,perhaps this USA withdrawal will be good for Europe. (If Europe is what you mean)
- legitster 2y ago[flagged]
- mtoner23 2y agothere's no need to defend any good things the nazis did to germany
- ceejayoz 2y agoThe good things (and the promises of more) are what make them compelling for a while. Fascism is appealing because top-down directives from an absolute leader can work… for a bit. Eventually you run out of the low hanging fruit that can be messed with by executive fiat, and then you have to find enemies to blame.
- skyyler 2y agoReminds me of the venerable Dril: issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the terror group ISIL. you do not, under any circumstances, 'gotta hand it to them.'
- legitster 2y agoApologies. Did by no means try to mean it as a compliment to the Nazis - I just intended it as a comparison to help explain the justification at the time.
- oblio 2y agoNope, it didn't. The Nazis started a war economy almost immediately and yes, they hiked employment, but the Nazi economy was boom or bust. They couldn't sustain it long term without the war.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> At least the Nazi party created a strong economy in Germany This is a myth. Wages of Destruction [1] details the Nazis’ autarkic economic incompetence. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wages_of_Destruction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wages_of_Destruction
- bilbo0s 2y agoThe point of no return is Trump getting a third term That's a little alarmist. It's not going to happen. Things are close to going off the rails and people are understandably troubled with the direction in which the US government is headed. I am as well. But we all need to start turning down the temperature a bit.
- mtoner23 2y agoHow did that work the last 10 times we said the things trump wants to do aren't gonna happen. He's saying he will so we should believe him https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/04/trump-third-term-republicans/682381/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/04/trump-t... https://www.foxnews.com/media/trump-going-run-third-term-steve-bannon-tells-bill-maher https://www.foxnews.com/media/trump-going-run-third-term-ste...
- allturtles 2y agoWhy do you consider it alarmist? Trump has repeatedly said he would do it, and that he's "not joking" about it.
- 9283409232 2y agoI have had to listen to people like you for almost 10 years talk about things Trump said that were never going to happen. At what point do you just accept the evidence of your eyes and ears?
- selectodude 2y agoNone of the rest of the stuff happening was going to happen either, I’m sure. Legal residents are being kidnapped and disappeared into foreign gulags but let’s turn down the temperature, right?
- ziddoap 2y agoThe number of times I've read people say "That's alarmist and will never happen", just to see that exact thing happen, is a lot.
- Latty 2y agoPeople keep saying this about everything the admin does before they do it. Pretending it won't happen won't stop it happening. The real question is, who is left to stop it? The man is saying he's not joking about it. It's in line with his previous actions. They have actively refused to comply with court orders. They actively tried to reject the results of an election. Why is it alarmist to say they may do the thing they want to do, and can do?
- pcthrowaway 2y ago[flagged]
- bluGill 2y agoThere is no evidence Trump has dementia. That is something his detracted unfairly say as if it is true, but there is no reason to think it is. I don't like him either, but that doesn't mean I will say unfair things about him.
- pcthrowaway 2y agoI was speaking in probabilities, not making a judgment myself (I wouldn't be qualified to do so anyway). Numerous mental health professionals have made the assertion that he is, and he has a family history of it, so at the very least it can't reasonably be claimed with 100% certainty that he's not in the early-to-mid stages of dementia. Furthermore, my statement was very clearly presented as a massive stretch in the first place; noting that it might slightly increase the chance that he'll be unable to make an attempt at a third term (even if by 0.01%). Sometimes squinting hard enough that the resulting bokeh resemble a silver lining is all you can do to muster hope.
- bluGill 2y agoStatistically at his age he has a 25% chance of dieing before his term ends.
- epolanski 2y agoThe point of no return was January 6th 2021! Once Americans pardoned an attempt by the sitting president to overthrow US democracy the game's over. America desperately needs a huge revision to the powers conceded to individuals and should instead mature to a slower, maybe less effective at times, but stronger democracy that nurtures parliamentary debate and discourse.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Once Americans pardoned an attempt by the sitting president to overthrow US democracy it's over already By this logic it was “over already” at the end of the Civil War. Suspending habeus corpus, ignoring the courts and then meeting with public indifference will be the point of no return. Trump’s third term would just be the canary passing out.
- ceejayoz 2y ago> By this logic it was “over already” at the end of the Civil War. That may be true. The North won the war, but let the ideology that caused it fester.
- shadowgovt 2y agoI think people frequently forget that the North didn't actually have the firepower to stamp out the ideology. Like any ideology, you can't actually destroy it with force any other way than burning books and, eventually, men. And whether or not that would have been wise: the war was extremely costly for the North and there was a non-zero chance that if they started dropping every third Southerner from the gallows the federal government would lose legitimacy in the eyes of the survivors on both sides of the Mason-Dixon and that'd be it.
- outer_web 2y agoIt could have been water under the bridge if we simply did not re-elect him. But now we have a second term emboldened by de facto total immunity.