2 ms·

> Relatively, yes. In aggregate, the rich pay the lion’s share of taxes in the West. Depends on your definition of rich, your definition of "lion's share" and

> Relatively, yes. In aggregate, the rich pay the lion’s share of taxes in the West. Depends on your definition of rich, your definition of "lion's share" and where in the west. In the UK 18% of government revenue comes from national insurance - which is an income tax only on earned income, and charged at a higher rate on people in lower tax bands. Another 17% is from VAT. Yes, rich people will buy more stuff subject to VAT, but a much lower proportion of their incomes, and it falls a lot as incomes go up. I would guess it pretty much plateaus for the super-rich. About 4% comes from council tax, which is per household with an adjustment for the value of the property you live in, and a that adjustment if far from proportionate and there is a maximum level that is far below the typical value of the residences of the rich. There is a penalty for owning multiple houses for personal use. Again, would plateau at some point. About another 5% comes from fuel and tobacco alcohol duties. Rich people might have bigger cars, but they are also more likely to have EVs, and they do not drink more alcohol AFAIK and are less likely to smoke. Only 23% comes from income tax which is the only clearly progressive tax - and that becomes less clear when you leave for exemptions and the greater ability of the rich to avoid it. It would take a detailed analysis to figure this out. Sources: https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/where-does-government-get-its-money https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/where-does-go... https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8513/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-...

9dev 2y ago
> Yes, rich people will buy more stuff subject to VAT, but a much lower proportion of their incomes, and it falls a lot as incomes go up. Doubt. Rich people usually have holding corporations or trust funds that can buy their yacht, and employ a wide range of tax evasion techniques carried out by an army of specialist lawyers and accountants to minimise tax impact to the absolute minimum. They play a different game than you or me, but on the same playing field.
- graemep 2y ago
  I think you agree with me? To clarify, rich people will spend more on the things subject to VAT than the rest of us. They will spend a lot more on entertainment, maintaining houses, cars and fuel, luxury consumables etc. However, a much higher proportion of their spending will be able to escape VAT because they can evade VAT (and income tax) to a much grater extent.
  - 9dev 2y ago
    Yes, I think so too. I guess I just didn't get the tax evasion aspect in relation to VAT.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Depends on your definition of rich, your definition of "lion's share" and where in the west Not really, it just requires pointing out that the rates you’re using to compare the modern West and Ancient Rome are much, much higher in every case for the latter. > In the UK I’ll admit I don’t know British figures well, so you may have a point. (As a small country, it has e.g. non-dom issues the EU, China and America do not.) In the U.S., about half of taxes are paid by the top 1%. That’s not commensurate with our power or privilege. But it’s also not nothing.

9dev 2y ago

> Yes, rich people will buy more stuff subject to VAT, but a much lower proportion of their incomes, and it falls a lot as incomes go up. Doubt. Rich people usually have holding corporations or trust funds that can buy their yacht, and employ a wide range of tax evasion techniques carried out by an army of specialist lawyers and accountants to minimise tax impact to the absolute minimum. They play a different game than you or me, but on the same playing field.

graemep 2y ago
I think you agree with me? To clarify, rich people will spend more on the things subject to VAT than the rest of us. They will spend a lot more on entertainment, maintaining houses, cars and fuel, luxury consumables etc. However, a much higher proportion of their spending will be able to escape VAT because they can evade VAT (and income tax) to a much grater extent.
- 9dev 2y ago
  Yes, I think so too. I guess I just didn't get the tax evasion aspect in relation to VAT.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Depends on your definition of rich, your definition of "lion's share" and where in the west Not really, it just requires pointing out that the rates you’re using to compare the modern West and Ancient Rome are much, much higher in every case for the latter. > In the UK I’ll admit I don’t know British figures well, so you may have a point. (As a small country, it has e.g. non-dom issues the EU, China and America do not.) In the U.S., about half of taxes are paid by the top 1%. That’s not commensurate with our power or privilege. But it’s also not nothing.