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They were not occupied in 1948 by any definition. The British territory of Mandatory Palestine was being split into two countries: Israel, and Palestine, much l

They were not occupied in 1948 by any definition. The British territory of Mandatory Palestine was being split into two countries: Israel, and Palestine, much like British India had been split a year prior into the new countries of India and Pakistan based on Hindu/Muslim religious groupings. The Israelis accepted the U.N. partition plan, and the Palestinians rejected it and invaded Israel, attempting to control the entire territory. They lost the war, although almost all of the Palestinian territory was taken by their supposed "allies" of Egypt and Jordan. Israel captured that territory from Egypt and Jordan in 1967, and eventually offered most of it back to the Palestinians to form a Palestinian state in 2000; the offer was rejected by Arafat, the leader of the Palestinian Authority at the time, who instead chose to launch the Second Intifadah (yet another bloody uprising) which largely ended the Oslo Accords based peace process. A short-lived attempt to reboot the process after Arafat's death happened in 2007 between Ehud Olmert and Mahmoud Abbas, which was aborted when Hamas won the Palestinian elections and triggered a Palestinian civil war. There were again direct talks in 2010, which ended when Hamas (who by then fully controlled Gaza) said they wouldn't accept a peace deal and would continue attacking Israel; from the Israeli perspective there was no point in continuing land-for-peace talks if the other side was firmly refusing the "peace" part. Of course the Palestinian situation is quite sad. But that is in large part a consequence of horrendous leadership that has repeatedly insisted on maximalist territorial demands and refuses to give up hope of destroying Israel and ruling the region in its entirety; they have been offered many options over many years that are far better than their current semi-state and refused them, since they would need to give up on destroying Israel. Even blaming "horrendous leadership" is a bit generous... After all, Hamas was popularly elected into power in part based on their claims that violence could extract territorial gains from Israel. Just as Trump couldn't have done much without being elected by his massive MAGA base, Hamas couldn't have ruled Gaza without their large Palestinian base that voted them into power — and Hamas continued to be extremely popular in Palestinian polls until late 2024, when the consequences of their actions began to become clear even to their ardent supporters.

za3faran 2y ago
They were occupied by the British, you said it yourself. They had no right to "split" anything. Muslims and Jews lived in Palestine pre european occupation just fine. The present day "Middle East" (a colonialist term) is carved out by european colonilism through sykes-picot. The plan to occupy Palestine started way before 48.
- reissbaker 2y ago
  The British didn't split anything; the U.N. did. Who do you think has the right to draw country borders other than the U.N.? There was no "Palestine" on a map prior to the British: it was the Ottoman Empire, and there wasn't even a region or subdivision of it that mapped to the current or British-era borders, and the Ottomans themselves were oppressive colonizers. Do you demand that the Turks be given control? Where do you stop? Perhaps the Greeks should be given control of all of Turkey, and take back the Hagia Sophia; after all, it was theirs first. And who, pray tell, lived in the land of Israel before the Islamic conquests, and before Roman imperialism...? As for Jews supposedly being able to live in peace prior to the British — you are once again incorrect. Jews were considered dhimmis, with various insane accompanying laws: Jews were legally required to dismount horses/donkeys and simply walk whenever any random Muslim passerby demanded it; a Muslim man could take a Jewish woman as a wife, but if a Jewish man tried to marry a Muslim woman he would be killed; Jewish orphans were systematically taken from the Jewish community by law and raised as Muslims — in fact, this is legally genocidal! — and in parts of the Ottoman Empire, the "Dung Gatherer's Decree" mandated that Jews clean the literal poop from Muslim sewers; in other parts they were forbidden from wearing shoes; Jews were killed in massacres by the thousands and synagogues burned; and of course, there's the famous Benny Morris quote from the 19th century in Jerusalem: I have seen a little fellow of six years old, with a troop of fat toddlers of only three and four, teaching [them] to throw stones at a Jew, and one little urchin would, with the greatest coolness, waddle up to the man and literally spit upon his Jewish gaberdine. To all this the Jew is obliged to submit; it would be more than his life was worth to offer to strike a Mohammedan. Naturally the Jews were not eager to return to this state of affairs. And so just as India and Pakistan were created out of British India, Israel and Palestine were attempted to be created out of the British Mandate. The Muslim residents were very eager to return to the prior state of affairs, refused partition, invaded, and... lost. And again; most of their territory was taken by Egypt and Jordan, not Israel.
  - za3faran 2y ago
    The UN that is controlled by western colonialist nations? That one has the right to draw borders? LOL. Are you aware of Sykes Picot and Balfour? Are you aware that this has been planned for a long time now, since at least 1899[1]? There most definitely was a region, and it was called Palestine[2]. As I mentioned elsewhere, Muslim Caliphates do not erode or destroy the local culture, they embrace it. The Ottomans were Muslims, we're one people. We don't have racist ideologies. It's interesting seeing these lies made up, or deliberate misinformation. The word "dhimmi" means one who is under the protection of another. The rights of dhimmis are protected, they can rule with their own laws among each other. No, a Jew was not legally required to dismount whenever a Muslim passed by - this is not Islamic law. Islamic law permits Muslim men to marry Christian or Jewish women, but Muslim women are not allowed to marry non-Muslim men; this has nothing to do with Jews. And it wouldn't be allowed in the first place, so he wouldn't be "killed" - no idea where you're getting your information from. The rest of the post is completely un-Islamic, and sounds fabricated. Maybe you should ask Jewish historian Shelomo Dov Goitein why he said that Jews lived well under the Muslims; maybe he knows something you don't, and he was not affected by fabricated narratives. To summarize, Islam rejects the Sykes Picot/Balfour borders between Muslim nations. What is happening today is a direct consequence of WWI. This is why Muslims are calling for a Caliphate to unite all Muslims, something that the west desperately tries to fight. [1] https://imgur.com/a/BlTdfKy https://imgur.com/a/BlTdfKy [2] https://imgur.com/a/jSMLBiZ https://imgur.com/a/jSMLBiZ

za3faran 2y ago

They were occupied by the British, you said it yourself. They had no right to "split" anything. Muslims and Jews lived in Palestine pre european occupation just fine. The present day "Middle East" (a colonialist term) is carved out by european colonilism through sykes-picot. The plan to occupy Palestine started way before 48.

reissbaker 2y ago
The British didn't split anything; the U.N. did. Who do you think has the right to draw country borders other than the U.N.? There was no "Palestine" on a map prior to the British: it was the Ottoman Empire, and there wasn't even a region or subdivision of it that mapped to the current or British-era borders, and the Ottomans themselves were oppressive colonizers. Do you demand that the Turks be given control? Where do you stop? Perhaps the Greeks should be given control of all of Turkey, and take back the Hagia Sophia; after all, it was theirs first. And who, pray tell, lived in the land of Israel before the Islamic conquests, and before Roman imperialism...? As for Jews supposedly being able to live in peace prior to the British — you are once again incorrect. Jews were considered dhimmis, with various insane accompanying laws: Jews were legally required to dismount horses/donkeys and simply walk whenever any random Muslim passerby demanded it; a Muslim man could take a Jewish woman as a wife, but if a Jewish man tried to marry a Muslim woman he would be killed; Jewish orphans were systematically taken from the Jewish community by law and raised as Muslims — in fact, this is legally genocidal! — and in parts of the Ottoman Empire, the "Dung Gatherer's Decree" mandated that Jews clean the literal poop from Muslim sewers; in other parts they were forbidden from wearing shoes; Jews were killed in massacres by the thousands and synagogues burned; and of course, there's the famous Benny Morris quote from the 19th century in Jerusalem: I have seen a little fellow of six years old, with a troop of fat toddlers of only three and four, teaching [them] to throw stones at a Jew, and one little urchin would, with the greatest coolness, waddle up to the man and literally spit upon his Jewish gaberdine. To all this the Jew is obliged to submit; it would be more than his life was worth to offer to strike a Mohammedan. Naturally the Jews were not eager to return to this state of affairs. And so just as India and Pakistan were created out of British India, Israel and Palestine were attempted to be created out of the British Mandate. The Muslim residents were very eager to return to the prior state of affairs, refused partition, invaded, and... lost. And again; most of their territory was taken by Egypt and Jordan, not Israel.
- za3faran 2y ago
  The UN that is controlled by western colonialist nations? That one has the right to draw borders? LOL. Are you aware of Sykes Picot and Balfour? Are you aware that this has been planned for a long time now, since at least 1899[1]? There most definitely was a region, and it was called Palestine[2]. As I mentioned elsewhere, Muslim Caliphates do not erode or destroy the local culture, they embrace it. The Ottomans were Muslims, we're one people. We don't have racist ideologies. It's interesting seeing these lies made up, or deliberate misinformation. The word "dhimmi" means one who is under the protection of another. The rights of dhimmis are protected, they can rule with their own laws among each other. No, a Jew was not legally required to dismount whenever a Muslim passed by - this is not Islamic law. Islamic law permits Muslim men to marry Christian or Jewish women, but Muslim women are not allowed to marry non-Muslim men; this has nothing to do with Jews. And it wouldn't be allowed in the first place, so he wouldn't be "killed" - no idea where you're getting your information from. The rest of the post is completely un-Islamic, and sounds fabricated. Maybe you should ask Jewish historian Shelomo Dov Goitein why he said that Jews lived well under the Muslims; maybe he knows something you don't, and he was not affected by fabricated narratives. To summarize, Islam rejects the Sykes Picot/Balfour borders between Muslim nations. What is happening today is a direct consequence of WWI. This is why Muslims are calling for a Caliphate to unite all Muslims, something that the west desperately tries to fight. [1] https://imgur.com/a/BlTdfKy https://imgur.com/a/BlTdfKy [2] https://imgur.com/a/jSMLBiZ https://imgur.com/a/jSMLBiZ