4 ms·

>> as it mainly applies to Lisp-like languages that uses parentheses heavily. This is so wrong. Lisp does not use parentheses heavily. It doesent even use more

by smnplk 2y ago

>> as it mainly applies to Lisp-like languages that uses parentheses heavily. This is so wrong. Lisp does not use parentheses heavily. It doesent even use more parens than any C like language. I just dont understand the fixation with parentheses. The power of lisps comes from the fact that everything is an expression. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, since I only have experience with functional lisp Clojure, but I believe other lisps are more or less similar. So if everything can be evaluated, then you can have a really great REPL experience. You can be inside your favorite editor and have the tightest feedback loop possible. So the absence of statements is actually a great feature of the language which improves ergonomics.

zelphirkalt 2y ago
The anti parentheses argument is usually just a straw that people grasp, who have no experience with writing code in lispy languages. A quick superficial jab at something they do not know well, so that they can go on with their day, without having to deal with learning a new thing, that might change their whole view of programming.
- MonkeyClub 2y ago
  Plus, don't forget the secret sauce of Lisp syntax: same number of parentheses, with none of the commas. Nor the semicolons. Nor the brackets. Nor the braces.
  - smnplk 1y ago
    I can live with brackets and braces tho ;) Clojure <3 But that is a very nice observation that is true for traditional lisps. I need to give racket or scheme one more look.
- eager_learner 2y ago
  [dead]
GoblinSlayer 2y ago
I just don't understand the fixation with REPL. How do you use it? It sounds like you write code as black box then run it in REPL to see what it does because you don't understand it by yourself.
- freilanzer 2y ago
  > It sounds like you write code as black box then run it in REPL to see what it does because you don't understand it by yourself. That doesn't even make any remote sense. "I don't get the fixation with the JVM. It sounds like you write code as a black box, then compile and run it to see what it does because you don't understand it by yourself."
- iLemming 2y ago
  > I just don't understand the fixation with REPL Perhaps because maybe you just haven't used one? I'm not talking about "a REPL" in langs like Python, where you typically have to type stuff into it. Lisp REPLs allow evaluating code directly in the source buffer, by sending it into the REPL. That REPL can be remote. Like seriously remote - NASA once did it on a spacecraft 150 million miles away from Earth. We run ours in a kubernetes cluster. Lisp REPL allows you to evaluate specific expressions, functions, or regions directly from where you are. Without saving, linting, linking, compiling, etc. > because you don't understand it by yourself. REPL is not about "understanding your code", it's about interactive development and exploration - it allows you to test your ideas and assumptions in real-time. Imagine being able to send http request, pull some good chunk of data, and then sort it, group it, slice it, dice it, filter it, visualize it - do whatever you want to do with it, directly from your editor. It's incredibly empowering and extremely liberating. The only downsides - after getting used to that, using non-lispy languages sucks all the joy out of programming and you also have to explain to people what it is like. It's like moving to an island where people have never discovered salt, pepper, and other spices, and though their cuisine looks beautiful - you just can't describe to them what they all are missing. Some even may say - "Hey, I've tried pepper once - but I don't understand your fixation with it" and you'd be like: "have you ever tried putting it into your food?"
  - 1y ago

by smnplk 2y ago

zelphirkalt 2y ago

The anti parentheses argument is usually just a straw that people grasp, who have no experience with writing code in lispy languages. A quick superficial jab at something they do not know well, so that they can go on with their day, without having to deal with learning a new thing, that might change their whole view of programming.

MonkeyClub 2y ago
Plus, don't forget the secret sauce of Lisp syntax: same number of parentheses, with none of the commas. Nor the semicolons. Nor the brackets. Nor the braces.
- smnplk 1y ago
  I can live with brackets and braces tho ;) Clojure <3 But that is a very nice observation that is true for traditional lisps. I need to give racket or scheme one more look.
eager_learner 2y ago
[dead]

GoblinSlayer 2y ago

I just don't understand the fixation with REPL. How do you use it? It sounds like you write code as black box then run it in REPL to see what it does because you don't understand it by yourself.

freilanzer 2y ago
> It sounds like you write code as black box then run it in REPL to see what it does because you don't understand it by yourself. That doesn't even make any remote sense. "I don't get the fixation with the JVM. It sounds like you write code as a black box, then compile and run it to see what it does because you don't understand it by yourself."
iLemming 2y ago
> I just don't understand the fixation with REPL Perhaps because maybe you just haven't used one? I'm not talking about "a REPL" in langs like Python, where you typically have to type stuff into it. Lisp REPLs allow evaluating code directly in the source buffer, by sending it into the REPL. That REPL can be remote. Like seriously remote - NASA once did it on a spacecraft 150 million miles away from Earth. We run ours in a kubernetes cluster. Lisp REPL allows you to evaluate specific expressions, functions, or regions directly from where you are. Without saving, linting, linking, compiling, etc. > because you don't understand it by yourself. REPL is not about "understanding your code", it's about interactive development and exploration - it allows you to test your ideas and assumptions in real-time. Imagine being able to send http request, pull some good chunk of data, and then sort it, group it, slice it, dice it, filter it, visualize it - do whatever you want to do with it, directly from your editor. It's incredibly empowering and extremely liberating. The only downsides - after getting used to that, using non-lispy languages sucks all the joy out of programming and you also have to explain to people what it is like. It's like moving to an island where people have never discovered salt, pepper, and other spices, and though their cuisine looks beautiful - you just can't describe to them what they all are missing. Some even may say - "Hey, I've tried pepper once - but I don't understand your fixation with it" and you'd be like: "have you ever tried putting it into your food?"
- 1y ago