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Wow, it's quite rare to see such politically advanced content here! My most hopeful part wonders if it's because tech workers are starting to realize what side

Wow, it's quite rare to see such politically advanced content here! My most hopeful part wonders if it's because tech workers are starting to realize what side of the class war they should be on

zombiwoof 2y ago
Which side should we be on?
- Alive-in-2025 2y ago
  I see three sides. Oligarchs like Musk, Thiel, Zuck, Gates. Fortunate people with a few million after 25 years of toil, and the large masses yearning to move up to a richer group.
  - andsoitis 2y ago
    you missed the people in extreme poverty. also, I think most people yearn to move up to a richer group. Not all, but I would wager more than 50% in any of these "groups".
    - soco 2y ago
      There are just too many who yearn to move up to the "finally afford food and house" higher group. I don't see them mentioned much in politics.
  - happytoexplain 2y ago
    If we're trying to define bands of shared values in the wealth strata, there are more than three, and your first two, while mutually distant, still have more in common with each other than with any other bands.
    - jjav 2y ago
      > first two, while mutually distant, still have more in common with each other than with any other bands Not really. People in the oligarch sphere have unimaginable power. If they need a law they buy it through politicians and lobbyists. If they need a law ignored just for them, same deal. Working class people who've toiled 25+ years and accumulated a few million are still just working class people, with nicer cars and slightly bigger house. But zero political influence and no ability to shape laws or enforcement in their favor.
      - marcus_holmes 2y ago
        I draw the line at around $20m. Why $20m? Some back-of-the-envelope maths: if you got a decent salary, say $250K, for 40 years and made some smart investments with it, offsetting your tax and living expenses, you'd have $10m. Double that for elbow room and that gives the extreme upper limit of what someone could reasonably get to by just working for a living. You could earn more, sure, but you'd be in the top 0.1% of earners if you did and we can safely exclude you as an extreme outlier. It's also enough money to do pretty much anything you want to do: sail a yacht around the world? sure. Never work again and live in luxury? Obviously. Make a difference to other people's lives in a good way? Achievable. But it's not enough money to upset entire political economies or buy power at the scale we've seen recently. If I had to implement a wealth tax, and I think we should, then that's the cutoff I'd put it at.
  - UtopiaPunk 2y ago
    If one must toil for 25 years, then such a person is still in the working class. A few years of high inflation, terribly high medical costs, damage to a house that insurance won't cover, etc, etc, can ruin even a "wealthy" person in the working class. The oligarchs, however, are living in another plane of existence than the rest of us.
    - Alive-in-2025 1y ago
      Yeah, I agree. Plus tech workers in the past 25 years were very fortunate, lots of jobs, lots of stock market increase. It seems to be getting worse. It's not a permanent thing.
- UtopiaPunk 2y ago
  The "class war" is between those who must sell their labor in order to survive, and capitalists who must purchase the labor of workers. Up to you to pick a side.
- prohobo 2y ago
  Reform of the economic system, I presume.
- tim333 2y ago
  I think the whole two sides in a class war model is a bit dated. If you are thinking workers and owners of capital there is a spectrum between the Musks at one end and minimum wage workers at the other with most techies somewhere in the middle owning some property and or equity. The system should maybe be modified to make it fairer but the splitting into two side who fight each other thing doesn't really work.

Wow, it's quite rare to see such politically advanced content here! My most hopeful part wonders if it's because tech workers are starting to realize what side of the class war they should be on

zombiwoof 2y ago

Which side should we be on?

Alive-in-2025 2y ago
I see three sides. Oligarchs like Musk, Thiel, Zuck, Gates. Fortunate people with a few million after 25 years of toil, and the large masses yearning to move up to a richer group.
- andsoitis 2y ago
  you missed the people in extreme poverty. also, I think most people yearn to move up to a richer group. Not all, but I would wager more than 50% in any of these "groups".
  - soco 2y ago
    There are just too many who yearn to move up to the "finally afford food and house" higher group. I don't see them mentioned much in politics.
- happytoexplain 2y ago
  If we're trying to define bands of shared values in the wealth strata, there are more than three, and your first two, while mutually distant, still have more in common with each other than with any other bands.
  - jjav 2y ago
    > first two, while mutually distant, still have more in common with each other than with any other bands Not really. People in the oligarch sphere have unimaginable power. If they need a law they buy it through politicians and lobbyists. If they need a law ignored just for them, same deal. Working class people who've toiled 25+ years and accumulated a few million are still just working class people, with nicer cars and slightly bigger house. But zero political influence and no ability to shape laws or enforcement in their favor.
    - marcus_holmes 2y ago
      I draw the line at around $20m. Why $20m? Some back-of-the-envelope maths: if you got a decent salary, say $250K, for 40 years and made some smart investments with it, offsetting your tax and living expenses, you'd have $10m. Double that for elbow room and that gives the extreme upper limit of what someone could reasonably get to by just working for a living. You could earn more, sure, but you'd be in the top 0.1% of earners if you did and we can safely exclude you as an extreme outlier. It's also enough money to do pretty much anything you want to do: sail a yacht around the world? sure. Never work again and live in luxury? Obviously. Make a difference to other people's lives in a good way? Achievable. But it's not enough money to upset entire political economies or buy power at the scale we've seen recently. If I had to implement a wealth tax, and I think we should, then that's the cutoff I'd put it at.
- UtopiaPunk 2y ago
  If one must toil for 25 years, then such a person is still in the working class. A few years of high inflation, terribly high medical costs, damage to a house that insurance won't cover, etc, etc, can ruin even a "wealthy" person in the working class. The oligarchs, however, are living in another plane of existence than the rest of us.
  - Alive-in-2025 1y ago
    Yeah, I agree. Plus tech workers in the past 25 years were very fortunate, lots of jobs, lots of stock market increase. It seems to be getting worse. It's not a permanent thing.
UtopiaPunk 2y ago
The "class war" is between those who must sell their labor in order to survive, and capitalists who must purchase the labor of workers. Up to you to pick a side.
prohobo 2y ago
Reform of the economic system, I presume.
tim333 2y ago
I think the whole two sides in a class war model is a bit dated. If you are thinking workers and owners of capital there is a spectrum between the Musks at one end and minimum wage workers at the other with most techies somewhere in the middle owning some property and or equity. The system should maybe be modified to make it fairer but the splitting into two side who fight each other thing doesn't really work.