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It doesn't make any sense. No one in their right minds would want such a product. Seems like the industry is too high on their own control fantasies to discer

It doesn't make any sense. No one in their right minds would want such a product. Seems like the industry is too high on their own control fantasies to discern what people want.

doright 2y ago
There are a lot of people in their wrong minds, and the industries market to them, intentionally or not. I have been one of them for a time although I somehow resist AI companionship. Companies aren't going to learn the stories of every depressed addict with a rough home life; so long as those addicts throw money at the service they see no issue. Mental health needs to be addressed before the propensity for someone to be addicted to AI chatbots can develop at all. By the time someone's AI addiction needs to be addressed, something has already gone wrong. The same goes for tobacco/heroin/gambling/other addictive substances. It's not very different in practice for AI chatbots. It fills a personal void in someone's life. That void is not usually discussed when building up regulatory frameworks to address the symptoms of despair.
- alganet 2y ago
  I don't think AI addiction is actually a thing. Whoever is using chatbots obsessively, is using on others, not on themselves. Not to fill a void, but to play and harass other humans. "Digital waifus" are old decade stuff, a very narrow market that has very low value. Those people aren't even addicted, it has become a healthy hobbyst culture. If you are serious about mental health, the real issue right now is the growing "incel" supergroup of targeted "dangerous" personas. That also has nothing to do with addiction. Those kids need real friends, AI companions _will_ be an extra insult to them, not a pax to fill some hypothetical void. They are not lonely and sad (that's the label people put on them), they are desensitized.
  - squigz 2y ago
    > the real issue right now is the growing "incel" supergroup of targeted "dangerous" personas Can you elaborate on this, particularly on how we might solve that issue?
    - alganet 2y ago
      Sure. To solve it powerful people need to stop using younger generations as personality cannon fodder for cultural and political disputes.
      - squigz 2y ago
        Now I'm even more unclear on what exactly it is you're talking about.
        alganet 2y ago
        In simple terms, I am talking about making kind human beings that are not fools. But that is a very generic description. The idea of AI companions plays with the notion of the 2020s "incel". A sad boy who can't get a girlfriend and spend time with games and digital toys. There is no other possible audience for a product like this. My assessment is that this interpretation is wrong, and those kids are not sad and lonely. That "personality" has been shaped and used online for all kinds of purposes. I think deep down they know that and will see the "digital girl" product as an insult. The fact that this demography uses LLMs is not a tell that they need someone to chat. Those kids are using AI chatbot content on others, not themselves. What they want is an LLM thug or bully agent to retaliate who mocks them. What they really need though is a friend, who can understand a little bit of what they went through, and that won't try to use them for some shady purpose or mock them. They will eventually realize that tech is not that friend, and have been manipulating them all along. Take some time to think about these issues before dismissing my point. I know you will dismiss my point, but take the time to do so. Thinking about humans as humans is important.
        squigz 2y ago
        > There is no other possible audience for a product like this. I think you greatly underestimate how widespread and serious loneliness has become, if you think that "sad teenage boy who can't get girlfriend" is the only audience for this. I know many people of various ages who have expressed interest in this, and none of them are what anyone would call "incels" Friendship and community is not as common as it should be for a huge amount of people, and AI companions will appeal to anyone who feels lonely enough.
- jnqfood 2y ago
  [dead]
bsder 2y ago
> No one in their right minds would want such a product. No one "wanted" computer gaming to be driven by how to maximize revenue extraction--mostly from addicted whales. Yet, here we are. If there is a way to extract money, someone is willing to stoop that low. This is why we are supposed to have laws.
- alganet 2y ago
  Streaming has more to do with the addiction part of computer gaming than gaming itself. I would say computer gaming had sucessfully removed the money spending bad part of gaming and turned into a real culture. Streaming brought back that bad part. But that's another topic. It is hard to compare. Of course we need laws. What I want is laws that work and address the real issues.
createaccount99 2y ago
What an uneducated take.
rsynnott 2y ago
I can't really understand why someone would want to use one of these things, but per the article, it does look like a huge number of people are doing so.
- alganet 2y ago
  It looks like someone used statistics to infer what a demographic wants, and tried to make an educated guess on low-resolution data.

It doesn't make any sense. No one in their right minds would want such a product. Seems like the industry is too high on their own control fantasies to discern what people want.

doright 2y ago

There are a lot of people in their wrong minds, and the industries market to them, intentionally or not. I have been one of them for a time although I somehow resist AI companionship. Companies aren't going to learn the stories of every depressed addict with a rough home life; so long as those addicts throw money at the service they see no issue. Mental health needs to be addressed before the propensity for someone to be addicted to AI chatbots can develop at all. By the time someone's AI addiction needs to be addressed, something has already gone wrong. The same goes for tobacco/heroin/gambling/other addictive substances. It's not very different in practice for AI chatbots. It fills a personal void in someone's life. That void is not usually discussed when building up regulatory frameworks to address the symptoms of despair.

alganet 2y ago
I don't think AI addiction is actually a thing. Whoever is using chatbots obsessively, is using on others, not on themselves. Not to fill a void, but to play and harass other humans. "Digital waifus" are old decade stuff, a very narrow market that has very low value. Those people aren't even addicted, it has become a healthy hobbyst culture. If you are serious about mental health, the real issue right now is the growing "incel" supergroup of targeted "dangerous" personas. That also has nothing to do with addiction. Those kids need real friends, AI companions _will_ be an extra insult to them, not a pax to fill some hypothetical void. They are not lonely and sad (that's the label people put on them), they are desensitized.
- squigz 2y ago
  > the real issue right now is the growing "incel" supergroup of targeted "dangerous" personas Can you elaborate on this, particularly on how we might solve that issue?
  - alganet 2y ago
    Sure. To solve it powerful people need to stop using younger generations as personality cannon fodder for cultural and political disputes.
    - squigz 2y ago
      Now I'm even more unclear on what exactly it is you're talking about.
      - alganet 2y ago
        In simple terms, I am talking about making kind human beings that are not fools. But that is a very generic description. The idea of AI companions plays with the notion of the 2020s "incel". A sad boy who can't get a girlfriend and spend time with games and digital toys. There is no other possible audience for a product like this. My assessment is that this interpretation is wrong, and those kids are not sad and lonely. That "personality" has been shaped and used online for all kinds of purposes. I think deep down they know that and will see the "digital girl" product as an insult. The fact that this demography uses LLMs is not a tell that they need someone to chat. Those kids are using AI chatbot content on others, not themselves. What they want is an LLM thug or bully agent to retaliate who mocks them. What they really need though is a friend, who can understand a little bit of what they went through, and that won't try to use them for some shady purpose or mock them. They will eventually realize that tech is not that friend, and have been manipulating them all along. Take some time to think about these issues before dismissing my point. I know you will dismiss my point, but take the time to do so. Thinking about humans as humans is important.
        squigz 2y ago
        > There is no other possible audience for a product like this. I think you greatly underestimate how widespread and serious loneliness has become, if you think that "sad teenage boy who can't get girlfriend" is the only audience for this. I know many people of various ages who have expressed interest in this, and none of them are what anyone would call "incels" Friendship and community is not as common as it should be for a huge amount of people, and AI companions will appeal to anyone who feels lonely enough.
jnqfood 2y ago
[dead]

bsder 2y ago

> No one in their right minds would want such a product. No one "wanted" computer gaming to be driven by how to maximize revenue extraction--mostly from addicted whales. Yet, here we are. If there is a way to extract money, someone is willing to stoop that low. This is why we are supposed to have laws.

alganet 2y ago
Streaming has more to do with the addiction part of computer gaming than gaming itself. I would say computer gaming had sucessfully removed the money spending bad part of gaming and turned into a real culture. Streaming brought back that bad part. But that's another topic. It is hard to compare. Of course we need laws. What I want is laws that work and address the real issues.

createaccount99 2y ago

What an uneducated take.

rsynnott 2y ago

I can't really understand why someone would want to use one of these things, but per the article, it does look like a huge number of people are doing so.

alganet 2y ago
It looks like someone used statistics to infer what a demographic wants, and tried to make an educated guess on low-resolution data.