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>The EV market has stalled. I don’t need a car, but I’d probably stick to a classic gas car. Why is this argument frequently framed as either/or? I love my hy

>The EV market has stalled. I don’t need a car, but I’d probably stick to a classic gas car. Why is this argument frequently framed as either/or? I love my hybrid vehicle (the Toyota gearbox is incredible, and apparently more reliable than a manual transmission).

unsnap_biceps 2y ago
Frankly, I rather the simplicity of one drive train over a hybrid. The plug in charging is short ranged enough that it's not meaningful and you still need to maintain all the combustion stuff. Hybrids may be the best of both worlds, but they're also the worst of both worlds.
- bayindirh 2y ago
  I recently drove a Suzuki Vitara Hybrid for 4-5 days. The only downside I saw is its fuel consumption is very low. Also, this one is not a fancy hybrid like Toyota's one. It has a motor between the engine and the gearbox. It also does regen braking, but that's all. My colleague's Toyota C-HR's fuel consumption is also pretty bad. Half of its nearest competitor, and lower than most car's highway consumption, in the city.
- ProllyInfamous 2y ago
  My hybrid doesn't even plug in... only has a 1kWH battery... and is warranted for 150k miles / 10 years. I traded-in a turbo-charged petrol-only vehicle, so I definitely understand your wanting to reduce complexity. My Camry is about as fast as the Subaru, and gets 2.5x the mileage on low-octane (city driving, primarily: high-40's). On roadtrips the battery really isn't that helpful (other than brief accelerations), dropping to ~38 mpg.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  > The plug in charging is short ranged enough that it's not meaningful and you still need to maintain all the combustion stuff. Probably depends on usage patterns; I know someone with one of the plugin BMWs, and they effectively never end up running on petrol.
  - unsnap_biceps 2y ago
    So fuel goes off after a month or so and can damage your engine. If they never run the fuel, do they add stabilizers? Do they just accept the reduced engine life? Or do they run with an empty tank?
    - rsynnott 2y ago
      AIUI most plugin hybrids have sealed pressurised fuel tanks, which prolong the life; many will also automatically use the engine such that they consume a full tank once every six months or something even if battery power is always available.
    - ProllyInfamous 2y ago
      I use ethanol-free (i.e. 100%) gasoline in my hybrid; the gas tank is also pressurized. These combine to give shelf-stable fuel, for years.
      - unsnap_biceps 2y ago
        Where do you find ethanol-free gasoline? I haven't seen that in decades.
        Marsymars 2y ago
        We had it available here until a few years ago... I think you have to buy up-grade gasoline now to get it without ethanol.
        gnabgib 2y ago
        Not sure where "here" is, but counter-intuitively (in US and much of Canada - where it has to be labeled) mid-grade is just low-grade + ethanol (which boosts octane), so it's often a down-grade over low-grade (important when you run a carburetor). Grade.
        2y ago
cavisne 2y ago
Hybrids are gas cars.

unsnap_biceps 2y ago

Frankly, I rather the simplicity of one drive train over a hybrid. The plug in charging is short ranged enough that it's not meaningful and you still need to maintain all the combustion stuff. Hybrids may be the best of both worlds, but they're also the worst of both worlds.

bayindirh 2y ago
I recently drove a Suzuki Vitara Hybrid for 4-5 days. The only downside I saw is its fuel consumption is very low. Also, this one is not a fancy hybrid like Toyota's one. It has a motor between the engine and the gearbox. It also does regen braking, but that's all. My colleague's Toyota C-HR's fuel consumption is also pretty bad. Half of its nearest competitor, and lower than most car's highway consumption, in the city.
ProllyInfamous 2y ago
My hybrid doesn't even plug in... only has a 1kWH battery... and is warranted for 150k miles / 10 years. I traded-in a turbo-charged petrol-only vehicle, so I definitely understand your wanting to reduce complexity. My Camry is about as fast as the Subaru, and gets 2.5x the mileage on low-octane (city driving, primarily: high-40's). On roadtrips the battery really isn't that helpful (other than brief accelerations), dropping to ~38 mpg.
rsynnott 2y ago
> The plug in charging is short ranged enough that it's not meaningful and you still need to maintain all the combustion stuff. Probably depends on usage patterns; I know someone with one of the plugin BMWs, and they effectively never end up running on petrol.
- unsnap_biceps 2y ago
  So fuel goes off after a month or so and can damage your engine. If they never run the fuel, do they add stabilizers? Do they just accept the reduced engine life? Or do they run with an empty tank?
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    AIUI most plugin hybrids have sealed pressurised fuel tanks, which prolong the life; many will also automatically use the engine such that they consume a full tank once every six months or something even if battery power is always available.
  - ProllyInfamous 2y ago
    I use ethanol-free (i.e. 100%) gasoline in my hybrid; the gas tank is also pressurized. These combine to give shelf-stable fuel, for years.
    - unsnap_biceps 2y ago
      Where do you find ethanol-free gasoline? I haven't seen that in decades.
      - Marsymars 2y ago
        We had it available here until a few years ago... I think you have to buy up-grade gasoline now to get it without ethanol.
        gnabgib 2y ago
        Not sure where "here" is, but counter-intuitively (in US and much of Canada - where it has to be labeled) mid-grade is just low-grade + ethanol (which boosts octane), so it's often a down-grade over low-grade (important when you run a carburetor). Grade.
        2y ago

cavisne 2y ago

Hybrids are gas cars.