4 ms·

Amazon Turned Drivers into First Responders in Europe Experiment

35 points by geox 2y ago

iwontberude 2y ago
https://archive.is/2025.04.10-095446/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-10/amazon-turned-drivers-into-first-responders-in-europe-experiment https://archive.is/2025.04.10-095446/https://www.bloomberg.c...
mentalgear 2y ago
This would indeed be great - IF they widen out the experiment and it won't stay a single PR stunt.
novia 2y ago
Dual use! (I looked up what dual use meant right after I posted this, and apparently it has military implications usually?) (The thing I'm trying to point at here is that we have limited resources, and whenever we can use a single thing for more than one purpose, it's good.) (Maybe the term I was looking for was dual-purpose? But even that doesn't really seem to map quite right.)
caseyy 2y ago
This could go badly if it ends up in the mass adoption-enshittification pipeline.
- Spooky23 2y ago
  I could see them putting volunteer responder lighting kits and avoiding parking tickets by doing this. I’m sure they’d never do such a thing.
timewizard 2y ago
> “This type of initiative is always a plus. If someone has a cardiac arrest, the more people trained and defibrillators available, the better,” I suspect there is a limit to this ideology. It's not an area where I'd expect more to automatically equal better. Moreover, if you want AEDs in residential areas, why not just install them there? Make it part of code for new constructions. > “And for Amazon, it valorizes their image.” At the expense of their employees. Do your delivery drivers get a pay bump? Do they get hazard pay? These scenarios can get pretty hairy and there's a decent chance they may end up watching someone die. Do they get time off? Counseling? Anything like what other first responders are expected to get? > The program’s backers also speculated that Project Pulse could improve driver retention. Managerial nonsense. They're trying to solve public perception problems of congestion and driver quality of life issues by having them run around with AEDs? This is pure corporate insanity.
- rtkwe 2y ago
  AEDs are about 1500 to 2000 generally here in the US at a quick glance and they're not a set and forget device you have to maintain them regularly or their battery will be dead when you go to use it. They only last about 2-5 years before they need replacing.
  - timewizard 2y ago
    > you have to maintain them regularly or they battery will be dead The ones we have act like smoke alarms in a low battery state. They produce a visual flash and an audible chirp to draw your attention to the device. > They only last about 2-5 years before they need replacing. The batteries are replaceable.
    - glawre 2y ago
      It's not just the batteries that need regular servicing, the pads do too. They expire on a similar timescale to the batteries but most AEDs don't alarm for expired pads. It's not uncommon for AEDs to also need firmware updates, although this typically doesn't effect the usability of the device.
      - timewizard 2y ago
        > but most AEDs don't alarm for expired pads. There are prescription AEDs and non-prescription AEDs. In most of the non-prescription ones I've seen the pads are part of the self check and you will get an alert if they're out of tolerance or past expiration. All the Philips HeartStart AEDs, which is what we have in our offices, have this feature. > AEDs to also need firmware updates There's a set of release notes I'd very much like to read.
        rtkwe 2y ago
        My point being requiring them to exist in every home doesn't guarantee they'll be available and usable where having them on the trucks and as part of a program they're more likely to be in decent shape. The other main thing I see is how often will people know where their required AED actually is in time to use it?
roshin 2y ago
sounds similar to what Jewish dense communities have https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatzalah https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatzalah I hope that amazon's been consulting with them to get some tips
senkora 2y ago
Amazon seems quite interested in expanding into healthcare. - One Medical, for primary care - Amazon Pharmacy, for prescription medication - This first responder experiment could potentially be commercialized somehow I think I’m fine with it so long as they don’t verify that you’re a Prime subscriber before treatment a la Cyberpunk.
- rightbyte 2y ago
  > I think I’m fine with it so long as they don’t [...] Why not just keep it short and write I am not fine with this. I really don't want their gig economy dystopia to leak into health care.
  - cmeacham98 2y ago
    Why would they write that they aren't fine with it when they are?
    - hackable_sand 2y ago
      Kind of like biting into a plastic apple.
  - amarcheschi 2y ago
    Amazon prime now includes 1 free van redirection in case you or someone from your family* needs immediate assistance *includes spouse and children (up to a family of 5 people)
- mhitza 2y ago
  I have no doubts that you end sentence is likely scenario. BigTech can operate their products at a loss to kill competition, capture market, lobby gatekeeping legislation, and then raise prices to meet shareholder expectations. Sometimes I wonder how progress would have looked like if we by some means had a hard cap how big companies can get.
- Aurornis 2y ago
  More pharmacy options is fine by me. The Mark Cuban branded pharmacy that everyone was excited about can be a good option if you have no insurance and you’re careful to check the grand total (inclusive of shipping fees) against your local pharmacy. The few times I checked, it was net cheaper for me to go to the local pharmacy though. Many generic drugs are $2-5 these days and ordering through an online pharmacy with shipping fees is both slower and more expensive. If Amazon could integrate cheap generics into their shipping infrastructure it would solve the shipping problem. If they made the effort to work with insurance they’d be a great option. I’m perfectly fine with a race to the bottom for medication dispensing middlemen.
drivingmenuts 2y ago
If I was having a heart attack, I'm sure'd I'd be fine if Barney the Dinosaur showed up with a defibrillator. But from where I'm sitting right now, bereft of heart issues (that I know of), I get kind of icked out, knowing that the guy who shows up with a jump start kit could be a stressed out Amazonian who still is expected to do 200 more deliveries that day. If they save my life, do I get a discount on Prime? Does that defibrillator deliverator get a bonus 15 minute break? Are they allowed to use a real bathroom instead of a bottle as a reward?
constantcrying 2y ago
I am quite skeptical of how viable this is. For these devices to be useful at all so many things would have to go right. The emergency must be reported, the van driver informed, he then has to drive (presumably without breaking any traffic laws, which EMS would do) to the affected person and correctly connect the device. The driver needs to be somewhat trained (although the devices are largely automated), but he also has to be prepared for some serious emotional distress. Having a person die right in front of you while you are fiddling with the medical device that could save his life is a terrible task. This is hard on EMS personell, but they are trained for this, have experience and self selected into that role. A van driver has none of that. All in all this seems of dubious value. From the article: "Amazon confirmed that more than 100 contract drivers took part in the experiment, with several receiving alerts from citizen responder apps and arriving on site, where rescue services were already treating the victims." Meaning there was exactly zero value in the program.
- lazystar 2y ago
  > Meaning there was exactly zero value in the program. if your customers die, they stop being customers. definitely some long term value there, but youre right, the psychological damage to the drivers could offset those gains.
  - saghm 2y ago
    I think the point that the parent commenter is making is that if the drivers are always arriving after the actual emergency workers, they're not providing any value. It sounds like they've yet to save a customer with this experiment, so the value you're talking about is still hypothetical.
    - lazystar 2y ago
      i give to thee the small sample size song: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dw9qqvm-LT8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dw9qqvm-LT8
      - 2y ago

35 points by geox 2y ago

https://archive.is/2025.04.10-095446/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-10/amazon-turned-drivers-into-first-responders-in-europe-experiment https://archive.is/2025.04.10-095446/https://www.bloomberg.c...

mentalgear 2y ago

This would indeed be great - IF they widen out the experiment and it won't stay a single PR stunt.

novia 2y ago

Dual use! (I looked up what dual use meant right after I posted this, and apparently it has military implications usually?) (The thing I'm trying to point at here is that we have limited resources, and whenever we can use a single thing for more than one purpose, it's good.) (Maybe the term I was looking for was dual-purpose? But even that doesn't really seem to map quite right.)

caseyy 2y ago

This could go badly if it ends up in the mass adoption-enshittification pipeline.

Spooky23 2y ago
I could see them putting volunteer responder lighting kits and avoiding parking tickets by doing this. I’m sure they’d never do such a thing.

timewizard 2y ago

> “This type of initiative is always a plus. If someone has a cardiac arrest, the more people trained and defibrillators available, the better,” I suspect there is a limit to this ideology. It's not an area where I'd expect more to automatically equal better. Moreover, if you want AEDs in residential areas, why not just install them there? Make it part of code for new constructions. > “And for Amazon, it valorizes their image.” At the expense of their employees. Do your delivery drivers get a pay bump? Do they get hazard pay? These scenarios can get pretty hairy and there's a decent chance they may end up watching someone die. Do they get time off? Counseling? Anything like what other first responders are expected to get? > The program’s backers also speculated that Project Pulse could improve driver retention. Managerial nonsense. They're trying to solve public perception problems of congestion and driver quality of life issues by having them run around with AEDs? This is pure corporate insanity.

rtkwe 2y ago
AEDs are about 1500 to 2000 generally here in the US at a quick glance and they're not a set and forget device you have to maintain them regularly or their battery will be dead when you go to use it. They only last about 2-5 years before they need replacing.
- timewizard 2y ago
  > you have to maintain them regularly or they battery will be dead The ones we have act like smoke alarms in a low battery state. They produce a visual flash and an audible chirp to draw your attention to the device. > They only last about 2-5 years before they need replacing. The batteries are replaceable.
  - glawre 2y ago
    It's not just the batteries that need regular servicing, the pads do too. They expire on a similar timescale to the batteries but most AEDs don't alarm for expired pads. It's not uncommon for AEDs to also need firmware updates, although this typically doesn't effect the usability of the device.
    - timewizard 2y ago
      > but most AEDs don't alarm for expired pads. There are prescription AEDs and non-prescription AEDs. In most of the non-prescription ones I've seen the pads are part of the self check and you will get an alert if they're out of tolerance or past expiration. All the Philips HeartStart AEDs, which is what we have in our offices, have this feature. > AEDs to also need firmware updates There's a set of release notes I'd very much like to read.
      - rtkwe 2y ago
        My point being requiring them to exist in every home doesn't guarantee they'll be available and usable where having them on the trucks and as part of a program they're more likely to be in decent shape. The other main thing I see is how often will people know where their required AED actually is in time to use it?

roshin 2y ago

sounds similar to what Jewish dense communities have https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatzalah https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatzalah I hope that amazon's been consulting with them to get some tips

senkora 2y ago

Amazon seems quite interested in expanding into healthcare. - One Medical, for primary care - Amazon Pharmacy, for prescription medication - This first responder experiment could potentially be commercialized somehow I think I’m fine with it so long as they don’t verify that you’re a Prime subscriber before treatment a la Cyberpunk.

rightbyte 2y ago
> I think I’m fine with it so long as they don’t [...] Why not just keep it short and write I am not fine with this. I really don't want their gig economy dystopia to leak into health care.
- cmeacham98 2y ago
  Why would they write that they aren't fine with it when they are?
  - hackable_sand 2y ago
    Kind of like biting into a plastic apple.
- amarcheschi 2y ago
  Amazon prime now includes 1 free van redirection in case you or someone from your family* needs immediate assistance *includes spouse and children (up to a family of 5 people)
mhitza 2y ago
I have no doubts that you end sentence is likely scenario. BigTech can operate their products at a loss to kill competition, capture market, lobby gatekeeping legislation, and then raise prices to meet shareholder expectations. Sometimes I wonder how progress would have looked like if we by some means had a hard cap how big companies can get.
Aurornis 2y ago
More pharmacy options is fine by me. The Mark Cuban branded pharmacy that everyone was excited about can be a good option if you have no insurance and you’re careful to check the grand total (inclusive of shipping fees) against your local pharmacy. The few times I checked, it was net cheaper for me to go to the local pharmacy though. Many generic drugs are $2-5 these days and ordering through an online pharmacy with shipping fees is both slower and more expensive. If Amazon could integrate cheap generics into their shipping infrastructure it would solve the shipping problem. If they made the effort to work with insurance they’d be a great option. I’m perfectly fine with a race to the bottom for medication dispensing middlemen.

drivingmenuts 2y ago

If I was having a heart attack, I'm sure'd I'd be fine if Barney the Dinosaur showed up with a defibrillator. But from where I'm sitting right now, bereft of heart issues (that I know of), I get kind of icked out, knowing that the guy who shows up with a jump start kit could be a stressed out Amazonian who still is expected to do 200 more deliveries that day. If they save my life, do I get a discount on Prime? Does that defibrillator deliverator get a bonus 15 minute break? Are they allowed to use a real bathroom instead of a bottle as a reward?

constantcrying 2y ago

I am quite skeptical of how viable this is. For these devices to be useful at all so many things would have to go right. The emergency must be reported, the van driver informed, he then has to drive (presumably without breaking any traffic laws, which EMS would do) to the affected person and correctly connect the device. The driver needs to be somewhat trained (although the devices are largely automated), but he also has to be prepared for some serious emotional distress. Having a person die right in front of you while you are fiddling with the medical device that could save his life is a terrible task. This is hard on EMS personell, but they are trained for this, have experience and self selected into that role. A van driver has none of that. All in all this seems of dubious value. From the article: "Amazon confirmed that more than 100 contract drivers took part in the experiment, with several receiving alerts from citizen responder apps and arriving on site, where rescue services were already treating the victims." Meaning there was exactly zero value in the program.

lazystar 2y ago
> Meaning there was exactly zero value in the program. if your customers die, they stop being customers. definitely some long term value there, but youre right, the psychological damage to the drivers could offset those gains.
- saghm 2y ago
  I think the point that the parent commenter is making is that if the drivers are always arriving after the actual emergency workers, they're not providing any value. It sounds like they've yet to save a customer with this experiment, so the value you're talking about is still hypothetical.
  - lazystar 2y ago
    i give to thee the small sample size song: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dw9qqvm-LT8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dw9qqvm-LT8
    - 2y ago