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Sociological theory says yes, the world is a lot more (=superlinearly) complex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_modernization https://en.wikipedia.org/

Sociological theory says yes, the world is a lot more (=superlinearly) complex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_modernization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_modernization

ranit 1y ago
The changes in society are accelerating and thus people cannot adapt fast enough. The society doesn’t necessarily become more complex.
maccard 1y ago
That is quite the Wikipedia article. It’s not often that I diss content, but if there was ever a summary of a topic written that tried to sound like it was a novel idea by labelling everything under the sun, this is it. Maybe I’m not smart enough to understand it, but honestly after 4 tries I still don’t get what the point is. Also, the topic of “reflexive” came about in the early to mid 20th century, so for many people here, our parents have always existed in this reflexive modern. That doesn’t mean things have gotten more complex in the last generation
- uniqueuid 1y ago
  Haha sorry, I understand that reaction to quite a lot of sociological theory. Personally I find this the easiest simple mental model for reflexive modernity: "Modernity linearly accelerated change. Reflexive modernity loops back on itself and accelerates the acceleration". So a bit of "singularity is near". The whole theory itself has quite a bit more baggage, but again I agree, the wikipedia article does not help at all. https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-89201-2 https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-89201-2
  - maccard 1y ago
    Honestly the Wikipedia article reads like it was written by someone who doesn’t understand the topic. The linked page to “reflexive” is much better, FWIW.
dullcrisp 1y ago
I’m not seeing an asymptotic lower bound on the growth of societal complexity in this Wikipedia article.
_Algernon_ 1y ago
This article is basically a showcase of why one shouldn't take sociology seriously. Thin ideological concepts packaged in a veneer of scientific sounding terminology, performed as an exercise to basically only allow the ideological in-group to "understand" it. The entire field seems like an elaborate suppression technique against the ideological outgroup (and apparently quite a successful one at that. Meanwhile sociology was hardest hit by the replication crisis and I see no sign that they have done anything to improve replicability of their "research"
- uniqueuid 1y ago
  Sorry but I don't think that's right. Do you have some sources for Sociology being hit harder than, say, Psychology, in the replication crisis? I personally don't even know of a many labs replication attempt from them (Sociology). So we probably don't know. That said, Sociology is the attempt to explain the most complex thing in the universe (collective behavior arising out of sentient individuals), so if you think there's a better way, I'd be extremely excited :)
pkkm 1y ago
I'm not seeing any empirical data in the article.

Sociological theory says yes, the world is a lot more (=superlinearly) complex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_modernization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_modernization

ranit 1y ago

The changes in society are accelerating and thus people cannot adapt fast enough. The society doesn’t necessarily become more complex.

maccard 1y ago

That is quite the Wikipedia article. It’s not often that I diss content, but if there was ever a summary of a topic written that tried to sound like it was a novel idea by labelling everything under the sun, this is it. Maybe I’m not smart enough to understand it, but honestly after 4 tries I still don’t get what the point is. Also, the topic of “reflexive” came about in the early to mid 20th century, so for many people here, our parents have always existed in this reflexive modern. That doesn’t mean things have gotten more complex in the last generation

uniqueuid 1y ago
Haha sorry, I understand that reaction to quite a lot of sociological theory. Personally I find this the easiest simple mental model for reflexive modernity: "Modernity linearly accelerated change. Reflexive modernity loops back on itself and accelerates the acceleration". So a bit of "singularity is near". The whole theory itself has quite a bit more baggage, but again I agree, the wikipedia article does not help at all. https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-89201-2 https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-89201-2
- maccard 1y ago
  Honestly the Wikipedia article reads like it was written by someone who doesn’t understand the topic. The linked page to “reflexive” is much better, FWIW.

dullcrisp 1y ago

I’m not seeing an asymptotic lower bound on the growth of societal complexity in this Wikipedia article.

_Algernon_ 1y ago

This article is basically a showcase of why one shouldn't take sociology seriously. Thin ideological concepts packaged in a veneer of scientific sounding terminology, performed as an exercise to basically only allow the ideological in-group to "understand" it. The entire field seems like an elaborate suppression technique against the ideological outgroup (and apparently quite a successful one at that. Meanwhile sociology was hardest hit by the replication crisis and I see no sign that they have done anything to improve replicability of their "research"

uniqueuid 1y ago
Sorry but I don't think that's right. Do you have some sources for Sociology being hit harder than, say, Psychology, in the replication crisis? I personally don't even know of a many labs replication attempt from them (Sociology). So we probably don't know. That said, Sociology is the attempt to explain the most complex thing in the universe (collective behavior arising out of sentient individuals), so if you think there's a better way, I'd be extremely excited :)

pkkm 1y ago

I'm not seeing any empirical data in the article.