4 ms·

Bad choice of words maybe, but that is what it feels like. Recent reports show that almost 50% of the country is on some sort of government benefit / entitlemen

• Jtsummers 14y ago
  > Bad choice of words maybe, but that is what it feels like. What it feels like and what it is are often at odds with each other. Emotional appeals allow for very sloppy reasoning. We can, and should, do much better than that especially on a forum like this. 50% of the population doesn't pay income tax. The vast majority of them still pay sales and property taxes (even renters pay property tax, though indirectly). If they drive they pay fuel taxes. The majority of that bottom 50% still works. They are contributing to society. They are contirbuting to companies by doing the jobs the companies want them to do. They spend their money on consumer goods and to various service industries. Companies, outside a few industries, don't exist without those customers.
  • 13rules 14y ago
    Property and sales taxes are not what is fueling the benefit/entitlement programs on the federal level, which is what is truly out of control. That is why people cite the 50% of people that don't pay income taxes so much -- we have half of the country paying nothing into the system and about the same amount of people taking out. It's not sustainable. To say that the government needs to keep handing out entitlements because otherwise companies will run out of customers is such an awful argument - and one that I have heard often. If the government would get out of the way the market would respond like it is supposed to -- and prices would come down. Would some companies go out of business? Possibly. But only the companies that were unsustainable without government propping them up to begin with.
    • Jtsummers 14y ago
      Wow, nice reframing. I didn't say the entitlements (Medicaid, unemployment, and other forms of welfare) permitted them to be customers. If that's what you got from my statement, reread it. The majority of them aren't freeloaders. The majority of them work - they provide benefits to companies by making things or performing other services. The majority of them pay other taxes (including payroll taxes, the part funding SS and Medicaid). They spend money on goods and services, which inherently means they're supporting the economy as a whole. To disregard this 50% as a bunch of freeloading losers does not make sense.
      • 13rules 14y ago
        I just said that 50% of Americans don't pay Federal taxes and about the same amount are on the receiving end of benefits / entitlements. I never called them freeloading losers, I simply stated that those kind of economics are not sustainable.
        • Jtsummers 14y ago
          Sorry, you're right. You just said they sit on their collective asses while the minority does the hard work. Payroll taxes are federal taxes. If you're working and not exempt (certain state employees, the Amish and some others), you pay payroll taxes. Since 50% of the population isn't unemployed, that means most of them are still paying payroll taxes, therefore they're paying federal taxes.
          • 13rules 14y ago
            The original premise is that successful people owe something to society because there are roads, bridges, technology advancements like the internet, etc, etc. without which they would not be successful. My point is, what about the people that are doing nothing? They have the same access to the roads, bridges, internet, but they do nothing. Don't they owe some sort of debt to society to go try to work instead of just collecting from others? What I meant is the federal income tax ... which is what funds a majority of this country's expenditures. I work. I pay my taxes. I donate money to non-profit organizations. I'm a good citizen. And I'm sick of being told by a bunch of redistributionist minded people that I owe more back to the collective good of society just because I have been successful and someone else hasn't.