6 ms·

This is huge. The 20-30 minute charge is very clearly a bottleneck, despite owners saying its a good opportunity to go into Target and do some shopping.

GuestFAUniverse 1y ago
I don't know what you are talking about. We just rented one with an ICE, because they only have mild-hybrids. We need a 15-20min rest after every ~2h (~120miles) anyway. I cannot refuel unattended, thus the 500+ miles of range are nice, but I would be more than happy to reload a BEV at every stop. 120miles of extra range should be doable, even in just 15min. Considering we could start with at least 80% battery charge, we wouldn't need the full 120miles extra at every stop. I don't see the problem even with small batteries (58kW netto) and the charging rate (e.g. ID3 above 100kWh @ 10-80%). It's only a problem if chargers aren't well maintained, or stupid ICE drivers block a station out of malice (and yes: mainly the same sickheads that are responsible for the current economic debacle).
SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
I don't agree that 20-minute charge is "very clearly a bottleneck" on road trips. Never mind "target" shopping, for 2 people to each stetch legs and use the restroom in turn, is already 10 minutes. Get another bottle of water at the attached convenience store, and you're close to the 20 minute mark. And if small children were also involved, then well... If you stop every 2 hours, you don't need the full 20 minutes to fully charge anyway. 20 mins is about where you equal the other, human time constraints. i.e. no longer the bottleneck.
- Neywiny 1y ago
  When I got my car I had to drive it 1500 miles back to my home and did it alone. I would stop when the tank needed filling. I got maybe 450 miles per tank, so maybe every 6-7 hours or so. That's 10 minutes per 6 hours, which is (10/6 / 20/3 =) 1/4th the overhead you're describing. So I'm agreeing with OC: when it's just me, 20 minutes every 2 hours starts becoming a bit much.
  - sanswork 1y ago
    You're describing a trip to had to do once and the difference in time would be what an extra hour in a 15 hour trip?
    - mcpeepants 1y ago
      But - and hear me out - what if that trip happened _twice_.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
        It's not one-size-fits-all? If you're regularly driving extreme distances and peeing into a bottle while driving, and you don't have access to home or work charging, then your vehicle choice can and should be different at present.
      - triceratops 1y ago
        Rent a car.
      - sanswork 1y ago
        I save about 10 minutes per week not having to ever go get gas. So even two of these 15 hour trips a year and I'd still be ahead
    - Neywiny 1y ago
      I am. But it's the same for everything. I don't live in a place I can install a car charger. It would be that overhead increase for every time I charged. It would actually be worse if it's not a once in a lifetime (so far) road trip because at least those times I wanted to be stopped for a bit. I'd imagine the times I'm rushing to work and have to stop for gas would get a lot worse with a long charge time.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
        > I'd imagine the times I'm rushing to work and have to stop for gas would get a lot worse with a long charge time. Of course. That's where my other comment is relevant: " "very fast charging" should not be the default, it should be rare. ... the default is overnight at home or during the day at office or a mall, with the software giving you that "topped up as specified, every morning, that's better than what an a ICE vehicle can provide" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43671612 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43671612 i.e. with an EV and commute, you can slow charge and also never "stop for gas", ever. The vehicle is just ready, every day. If you "don't live in a place where you can have a car charger" at home or at work, then IMHO an EV is not ideal for you, yet. The infrastructure isn't ready for you, work on that first.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- doubled112 1y ago
  I used to get over 1000km to a tank of fuel. I didn’t stop until I got there. That was in a 2002. What huge quality of life improvements we’ve made…
  - justinrubek 1y ago
    If I felt the need to drive 1000km without a break, I would be supremely glad to have technology that forced me to be more reasonable with my body.
- Zigurd 1y ago
  Do German cars, in Germany, still have a two hour timer to remind you to take a break?

GuestFAUniverse 1y ago

I don't know what you are talking about. We just rented one with an ICE, because they only have mild-hybrids. We need a 15-20min rest after every ~2h (~120miles) anyway. I cannot refuel unattended, thus the 500+ miles of range are nice, but I would be more than happy to reload a BEV at every stop. 120miles of extra range should be doable, even in just 15min. Considering we could start with at least 80% battery charge, we wouldn't need the full 120miles extra at every stop. I don't see the problem even with small batteries (58kW netto) and the charging rate (e.g. ID3 above 100kWh @ 10-80%). It's only a problem if chargers aren't well maintained, or stupid ICE drivers block a station out of malice (and yes: mainly the same sickheads that are responsible for the current economic debacle).

SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago

I don't agree that 20-minute charge is "very clearly a bottleneck" on road trips. Never mind "target" shopping, for 2 people to each stetch legs and use the restroom in turn, is already 10 minutes. Get another bottle of water at the attached convenience store, and you're close to the 20 minute mark. And if small children were also involved, then well... If you stop every 2 hours, you don't need the full 20 minutes to fully charge anyway. 20 mins is about where you equal the other, human time constraints. i.e. no longer the bottleneck.

Neywiny 1y ago
When I got my car I had to drive it 1500 miles back to my home and did it alone. I would stop when the tank needed filling. I got maybe 450 miles per tank, so maybe every 6-7 hours or so. That's 10 minutes per 6 hours, which is (10/6 / 20/3 =) 1/4th the overhead you're describing. So I'm agreeing with OC: when it's just me, 20 minutes every 2 hours starts becoming a bit much.
- sanswork 1y ago
  You're describing a trip to had to do once and the difference in time would be what an extra hour in a 15 hour trip?
  - mcpeepants 1y ago
    But - and hear me out - what if that trip happened _twice_.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
      It's not one-size-fits-all? If you're regularly driving extreme distances and peeing into a bottle while driving, and you don't have access to home or work charging, then your vehicle choice can and should be different at present.
    - triceratops 1y ago
      Rent a car.
    - sanswork 1y ago
      I save about 10 minutes per week not having to ever go get gas. So even two of these 15 hour trips a year and I'd still be ahead
  - Neywiny 1y ago
    I am. But it's the same for everything. I don't live in a place I can install a car charger. It would be that overhead increase for every time I charged. It would actually be worse if it's not a once in a lifetime (so far) road trip because at least those times I wanted to be stopped for a bit. I'd imagine the times I'm rushing to work and have to stop for gas would get a lot worse with a long charge time.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
      > I'd imagine the times I'm rushing to work and have to stop for gas would get a lot worse with a long charge time. Of course. That's where my other comment is relevant: " "very fast charging" should not be the default, it should be rare. ... the default is overnight at home or during the day at office or a mall, with the software giving you that "topped up as specified, every morning, that's better than what an a ICE vehicle can provide" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43671612 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43671612 i.e. with an EV and commute, you can slow charge and also never "stop for gas", ever. The vehicle is just ready, every day. If you "don't live in a place where you can have a car charger" at home or at work, then IMHO an EV is not ideal for you, yet. The infrastructure isn't ready for you, work on that first.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
doubled112 1y ago
I used to get over 1000km to a tank of fuel. I didn’t stop until I got there. That was in a 2002. What huge quality of life improvements we’ve made…
- justinrubek 1y ago
  If I felt the need to drive 1000km without a break, I would be supremely glad to have technology that forced me to be more reasonable with my body.
Zigurd 1y ago
Do German cars, in Germany, still have a two hour timer to remind you to take a break?