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The problem is that, among casualties, you create an environment that is hostile for families and disabled people.
by Saline9515 2y ago
The problem is that, among casualties, you create an environment that is hostile for families and disabled people.
- loloquwowndueo 2y agoOnly if you just remove the cars without replacing them with good public transportation (family friendly, accessible, with special modes for disabled people).
- Saline9515 2y agoWhich doesn't exist and is hardly possible in Paris.
- chadd 2y agoi'm not sure this is true, for instance NYC ranks as the second most disabled-friendly city https://www.amny.com/lifestyle/new-york-city-ranks-2nd-in-a-study-revealing-the-worlds-most-disability-friendly-cities/#:~:text=New%20York%20City%20ranks%202nd,world's%20most%20disability%2Dfriendly%20cities https://www.amny.com/lifestyle/new-york-city-ranks-2nd-in-a-...
- Saline9515 2y agoIn Paris, 90% of the metro transportation system isn't accessible to wheelchairs and strollers. Buses are overcrowded and slow. Who doesn't enjoy to see someone cough on their newborn while fighting for a space for their stoller ?
- StopDisinfo910 2y agoBuses are perfectly accessible in Paris. They are crowded but acceptably so for a city of 10 millions. It’s not fair to expect the collectivity to accept the externalities of cars so rich people can avoid some slight discomfort.
- Saline9515 2y agoParis is not a city of 10 millions, it has only two million habitants. And cars are not reserved to rich people, why would they be? I grew up in Paris, my parents weren't rich, we were living in public housing and we had a car. Families are not second-tier citizens, and currently the public transports are not suited for them. On top of the other problems, such as the pleasure of having to deal with crackheads and various homeless people in the metro when you have a baby. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Paris https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Paris
- jltsiren 2y agoWhen it comes to traffic and urban planning, Paris is best understood as a city of 10+ million people. The administrative subdivision called Paris has only ~2 million people, but the city doesn't end at its borders.
- Saline9515 2y agoYes, however there is little urban planning for whole metro, and the administrative level we are talking about here is the intra-muros one. When the mayor decided to reduce the speed on the outer loop, she didn't notify nor discussed with the rest of the metro, for instance. And the measures discussed in the article are specific to Paris.
- StopDisinfo910 2y ago> Yes, however there is little urban planning for whole metro Paris biggest infrastructure project for the past 20 years is called "Grand Paris" and revolve entirely around the whole metro. Actually there is literally no urban planning not involving the whole metro. And yes, lowering the speed limit involved multiple consultations with the prefect and the region because it impacts the whole metro. Considering Paris without its metropole doesn’t make sense. Paris intra-muros is ridiculously small, one eightieth of London, 80% of San Francisco.
- flomo 2y agoSurprising, considering the NYC subway has been ignoring the ADA as much as possible.
- rangestransform 2y agoWhat else do you expect when elevators are 100M apiece
- oblio 2y agoShocker, both disabled people and families are easily identifiable and can be exempt from such measures.
- Saline9515 2y agoWell, they aren't exempt. Many French greens will tell you anyway that having children is bad for the planet and that you should abstain. And, as our population grows older, the accessibility problem will be larger and larger.
- oblio 2y agoThe Greens have less than 7% of the places in the French Parliament.
- Der_Einzige 2y agoA lot of car drivers will respond with “good” and Darwinian arguments about their lack of fitness for the harshness of life.
- bryanlarsen 2y agoIf there are fewer cars on the road, there is a lot less traffic, and driving because much easier for those who are car-dependent. Example: the Netherlands.
- Saline9515 2y agoNetherlands have as many cars as most the developed nations.
- bryanlarsen 2y agoYes, but they're used less frequently. Most middle class people have a car, but they're often only used for irregular trips. Commuting and errands use alternative means at much higher rates than elsewhere.
- Saline9515 2y agoPoint is, they still need cars if they have them. And Netherlands are very far from Paris, infrastructure-wise. In Paris, for instance, leaving your cargo or e-bike outside for the night means finding nothing when you wake up (I got two bikes stolen already, and they were the cheapest available).
- bryanlarsen 2y agoThe topic of the original post is air pollution. Unused cars don't cause air pollution. The topic of this thread is inconveniencing the disabled. Unused cars don't cause traffic that inconveniences the disabled.
- Saline9515 2y agoParis tackled the problem by making it very hard to own a car. It's the same for Amsterdam, too. We all hate pollution, it's just that the solutions available in the Dutch countryside are a bit different than in Paris.
- alistairSH 2y agoThat’s not a given. Nobody here is talking about outright bans on all vehicles. Limited access for taxis and commercial use is a thing. Buses can be built with wheelchair access. Etc. And with less space reserved for cars and only cars, there’s more space for wide/accessible sidewalks. Less chance of being run over by a car. Less air and noise pollution.
- Saline9515 2y agoWell if you have less space for cars, parking spots are more expensive as a result. In Paris it's around a year of living wage. And currently, sidewalks are getting smaller due to the need to build bicycle lanes. My initial post was that in Paris, they removed cars but did not improve public transports, so buses are overcrowded and hostile to strollers.
- jenadine 2y agoPeople with disabilities gets a special pass that allow them to park on special parking places that are reserved for them.
- seszett 2y ago> an environment that is hostile for families I don't understand this part, I read it quite often but... well, we are a family with young children, and although we do have a car we only use it once a week to go to the grand-parents that live 100 km away from here. A city with less cars is great especially for families (though I would argue that cities themselves are not so great for children, but the comparison here is between cities that are car-centric or that are not). It makes going out easier and more spontaneous. It's much less of a hassle to hop in the cargo bike and go wherever (including stopping en route if you see something interesting) than having to use the car, sit in traffic, hope you can find parking space at your destination, and pay for it.
- enaaem 2y agoIn the 60s, Dutch anti-car protestors had the slogan "Stop the child murder!". People were used to traditional cities where children could safely cycle around, but then cars came and started killing them.
- Saline9515 2y agoI have very two kids, plan to have three. Cargo bikes are not practical, are easily stolen, and are not safe to transport children, especially under 6 years old. Besides, when doing groceries for 5 once a week, I regularly fill my 500L car boot, so an equivalent cargo bike with at least 3 seats and a large boot... would just be a car. Which you have, and use once a week. Or when you need to go to the doctor. Or when your wife is sick. Or if you have an urgency. So, as a family, you still need a car.
- seszett 2y agoWell I just have the reverse experience. My cargo bike is practical, has not been stolen yet and up to four children under 6 are fine to transport in it. I don't feel it especially unsafe. I also use it for groceries. Sometimes using both the cargo bike and a bike trailer (on two different bikes). We don't buy nearly at many things though it seems. When I do use my car (doing groceries while the children are with the grandparents) I have to transfer them from the car to the bike anyway because I can rarely park close to my home. My doctor (and my wife's doctor) is certainly easier to reach by foot than by car. And I guess I never have the kind of urgency that would require me to use a car in the city. If there's something urgent a bike is always faster in this city.
- dghlsakjg 2y agoI can assure you that there are disabled people who really don’t like car oriented environments since so many disabilities preclude driving.