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In modern cars, including EV, polution and noise come from weight and tires and breaks; the polution levels are a sharp funxtion of speed, but the speeds at whi

by pama 2y ago

In modern cars, including EV, polution and noise come from weight and tires and breaks; the polution levels are a sharp funxtion of speed, but the speeds at which they dont matter much, dont offer benefits either. If we had magnetic/levitated cars maybe some simple solution could be found, but with the current designs where the tires hit the asphalt it seems hard to make things environmentally friendly in a city other than reducing or banning cars. I like the idea of people-mover belts. Maybe fast surface belts and escalators could help larger cities if cars were out of the way. Subway systems almost feel like people-mover belts sometimes, but their noise levels are incredibly high and they do damage metalic rails during breaking so not sure how low the contribution to air polution could be.

stavros 2y ago
This is a bad-faith fallacy. We had cars that emitted X amounts of tyre/brake particulate and 10X amounts of combustion residue, we got rid of the combustion part, and now we hear "OMG! 100% is tyre particulate!!!" Sure, but people won't stop moving, and there's no vacuum, you should compare brake particulate to whatever else people would use if cars didn't exist.
- microtonal 2y ago
  Or you could just make a city car-free. There are so many benefits besides fewer particles in the air. People can walk and cycle safely. Kids can play in the streets. The atmosphere is so much nicer, since people are not isolated by walls around them. I have lived in a city with a (nearly) car-free city center (+ separate bike lines for many roads outside the center) for most of my adult life [1] and it is just glorious. Most locals just walk or cycle. Longer distances by (electric) bus or train. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen#Cycling_and_walking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen#Cycling_and_walking
  - Saline9515 2y ago
    Kids can't play in streets as now the new predators are cyclists who don't slow down or get down of their bikes. Besides, cars are a staple for families, and hardly substituable. Good luck doing groceries for 6 without one.
    - fhackenberger 2y ago
      Cargo bike?
      - Saline9515 2y ago
        It isn't very different than a car if you want to reach the same level of features.
    - andrepd 2y ago
      It's mind boggling to me that this is a genuine comment. I suggest this yt channel as a start to open your eyes as to how yes, another world is possible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM
      - Saline9515 2y ago
        I live in Riga, here cyclists ride on the sidewalk, along with e-scooters. I went out for a ten minutes walk with my son, I had to physically and verbally intervene three times to avoid him being hit by a cyclist or e-scooter. Last month our nanny was hit by a cyclist. In Paris it is very common and the main reason they banned e-scooters. So, while the US paradigm is toxic, I'm not convinced about the one you are proposing, given that, in my experience, cyclists are ruthless and never behave unless I physically intimidate them. And I would rather walk in peace.
        dublinben 2y ago
        It's a shame that riders of bikes and scooters in your city feel so unsafe riding on the road, that they are forced onto the sidewalks. Blame dangerous drivers and the lack of protected bike lanes though, not your neighbors who are just trying to arrive at their destinations alive. Pedestrian collisions with bikes versus collisions with automobiles are utterly incomparable both in number and severity. If that cyclist had been driving a car, you would probably need to find a new nanny!
        2y ago
- pama 2y ago
  Hi Stavros. I would never say OMG—dont believe in deities—and I feel sorry that it came out that way. I was commenting on the GP, which was suggesting alternative ways to get similar effects to those of car-free cities, but in alternative ways. Of those possible ways, to my suprise, the large conveyor belt seemed an interesting possible next step. EVs are not reducing polution in modern cities, unfortunately. They are still way better than gas burning vehicles for a lot of reasons, including CO2 reduction, but as per studies by the Economist they are currently worse on air pollution in cities, unfortunately, due to their typical extra weight, so once we optimize life in cities, we probably want to find ways to reduce their weight and speed, and currently the straightforward solution is to reduce their numbers. As people start obsessing with detecting microplastics in the next decade, these types of changes in city life vs rural life exposure might become even more dramatic.

by pama 2y ago

stavros 2y ago

This is a bad-faith fallacy. We had cars that emitted X amounts of tyre/brake particulate and 10X amounts of combustion residue, we got rid of the combustion part, and now we hear "OMG! 100% is tyre particulate!!!" Sure, but people won't stop moving, and there's no vacuum, you should compare brake particulate to whatever else people would use if cars didn't exist.

microtonal 2y ago
Or you could just make a city car-free. There are so many benefits besides fewer particles in the air. People can walk and cycle safely. Kids can play in the streets. The atmosphere is so much nicer, since people are not isolated by walls around them. I have lived in a city with a (nearly) car-free city center (+ separate bike lines for many roads outside the center) for most of my adult life [1] and it is just glorious. Most locals just walk or cycle. Longer distances by (electric) bus or train. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen#Cycling_and_walking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen#Cycling_and_walking
- Saline9515 2y ago
  Kids can't play in streets as now the new predators are cyclists who don't slow down or get down of their bikes. Besides, cars are a staple for families, and hardly substituable. Good luck doing groceries for 6 without one.
  - fhackenberger 2y ago
    Cargo bike?
    - Saline9515 2y ago
      It isn't very different than a car if you want to reach the same level of features.
  - andrepd 2y ago
    It's mind boggling to me that this is a genuine comment. I suggest this yt channel as a start to open your eyes as to how yes, another world is possible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM
    - Saline9515 2y ago
      I live in Riga, here cyclists ride on the sidewalk, along with e-scooters. I went out for a ten minutes walk with my son, I had to physically and verbally intervene three times to avoid him being hit by a cyclist or e-scooter. Last month our nanny was hit by a cyclist. In Paris it is very common and the main reason they banned e-scooters. So, while the US paradigm is toxic, I'm not convinced about the one you are proposing, given that, in my experience, cyclists are ruthless and never behave unless I physically intimidate them. And I would rather walk in peace.
      - dublinben 2y ago
        It's a shame that riders of bikes and scooters in your city feel so unsafe riding on the road, that they are forced onto the sidewalks. Blame dangerous drivers and the lack of protected bike lanes though, not your neighbors who are just trying to arrive at their destinations alive. Pedestrian collisions with bikes versus collisions with automobiles are utterly incomparable both in number and severity. If that cyclist had been driving a car, you would probably need to find a new nanny!
        2y ago
pama 2y ago
Hi Stavros. I would never say OMG—dont believe in deities—and I feel sorry that it came out that way. I was commenting on the GP, which was suggesting alternative ways to get similar effects to those of car-free cities, but in alternative ways. Of those possible ways, to my suprise, the large conveyor belt seemed an interesting possible next step. EVs are not reducing polution in modern cities, unfortunately. They are still way better than gas burning vehicles for a lot of reasons, including CO2 reduction, but as per studies by the Economist they are currently worse on air pollution in cities, unfortunately, due to their typical extra weight, so once we optimize life in cities, we probably want to find ways to reduce their weight and speed, and currently the straightforward solution is to reduce their numbers. As people start obsessing with detecting microplastics in the next decade, these types of changes in city life vs rural life exposure might become even more dramatic.