4 ms·

Don't have to ban cars - the UK has adopted a speed limit of 20/30 mph in cities and I'm sure it helps. Surely helps with the noise and the safety

by pluc 2y ago

jfengel 2y ago
A lot of the problems occur where you couldn't go 20 mph. The City of London famously has a congestion charge, which also helps lot. A similar plan just got started in Manhattan and already has big wins.
- foldr 2y ago
  The congestion charge applies to a zone within London that’s much larger than just the City of London.
graemep 2y ago
It can make pollution worse. ICE cars are most efficient at around 50mph.
- appreciatorBus 2y ago
  > ICE cars are most efficient at around 50mph ... when driven continuously without stopping, like a on cross country limited access highway. When driving in the places people live, with cross walks and stop signs and children playing outside requiring frequent slowing & stopping, there's no efficiency benefit from racing 0 to 50mph every block then slamming on the brakes, only to repeat for each block after.
  - graemep 2y ago
    I frequently drive through 20 mph areas with little stop start traffic. I rarely drive at busy times. There is nowhere in the UK I can think of that has had a 50 limit in my lifetime that requires frequent breaking. 20 mph limits are invariably reduced from 30.
    - globular-toast 2y ago
      Never been to Milton Keynes then? 70mph limit between roundabouts. Can think of countless other examples.
globular-toast 2y ago
In the UK people consider "speeding" to be going 10mph or more over the limit. So 20/30mph really means 30/40mph, and in addition there are still many places with 40mph (50mph) roads going through. Speed limit signs don't work. People will drive at whatever speed feels right and this is usually way above 20mph. What works is narrowing the roads. When the carriage way is barely wider than your vehicle it magically makes 20mph feel appropriate and 30mph seem fast (which it is). This has the bonus effect that larger vehicles feel it more, which is perfect considering they are the most dangerous and should be driven by trained professionals who are used to such tight spaces. It essentially makes driving much more stressful, which is exactly what it should be. The problem at the moment is drivers get everything: big, wide, smooth roads, with the best drainage and grading; the easiest and most convenient mode of transport; but none of the responsibility. We need to shift the balance back. You can drive, but it's a big responsibility and if you fuck up the consequences are serious.
- pluc 2y ago
  Maybe it's just me but every car I've rented while traveling through the UK for the last 3 months starts beeping when you go over the limit. Really helps keep you under it by annoying the shit out of you.
- ronnieboy493 2y ago
  > Speed limit signs don't work. ... What works is narrowing the roads. Even if you have every intention to stay within limits they don't work. In the US we have these massive stroads in urban areas posted at 35 mph. When I drive (rarely) I have to constantly monitor my speed. It doesn't feel natural and also takes away from, ya know, paying attention to the road. Aside from my opinion that 35 is way too fast anyways. At the same time I've seen people complain that roads which are clearly not narrow, are too narrow because they can't barrel down side streets at 50. But at least it forces them to drive slower. > It essentially makes driving much more stressful, which is exactly what it should be. ... the easiest and most convenient mode of transport ... It boggles the mind. We sit in these big cozy chairs that transport us almost anywhere with little to no effort. It's pretty incredible. Yet, the most minor of inconveniences can cause a lot of car brains to absolutely lose it. Driving feels adjacent to addiction to many Americans and if people don't get their fix they go into complete meltdowns. I think people do find driving stressful, but for the wrong reasons. Sitting a red light? Stressful. Cyclist slowing you down? Stressful. Too many other people are using cars at the same time you are? Stressful. It's stress originating from believing you had the god given right to drive like a maniac at all times. In every part of US cities pedestrian walkways have to cross roads. But really roads should have to cross the walkways. Instead of sidewalks dipping down into four lane highways, roads should have to go up and over sidewalks at intersections. In Amsterdam there was huge expansive brick walkways that cars can use, but they're the foreign entity. Not the pedestrians.

Don't have to ban cars - the UK has adopted a speed limit of 20/30 mph in cities and I'm sure it helps. Surely helps with the noise and the safety

by pluc 2y ago

Don't have to ban cars - the UK has adopted a speed limit of 20/30 mph in cities and I'm sure it helps. Surely helps with the noise and the safety

jfengel 2y ago

A lot of the problems occur where you couldn't go 20 mph. The City of London famously has a congestion charge, which also helps lot. A similar plan just got started in Manhattan and already has big wins.

foldr 2y ago
The congestion charge applies to a zone within London that’s much larger than just the City of London.

graemep 2y ago

It can make pollution worse. ICE cars are most efficient at around 50mph.

appreciatorBus 2y ago
> ICE cars are most efficient at around 50mph ... when driven continuously without stopping, like a on cross country limited access highway. When driving in the places people live, with cross walks and stop signs and children playing outside requiring frequent slowing & stopping, there's no efficiency benefit from racing 0 to 50mph every block then slamming on the brakes, only to repeat for each block after.
- graemep 2y ago
  I frequently drive through 20 mph areas with little stop start traffic. I rarely drive at busy times. There is nowhere in the UK I can think of that has had a 50 limit in my lifetime that requires frequent breaking. 20 mph limits are invariably reduced from 30.
  - globular-toast 2y ago
    Never been to Milton Keynes then? 70mph limit between roundabouts. Can think of countless other examples.

globular-toast 2y ago

In the UK people consider "speeding" to be going 10mph or more over the limit. So 20/30mph really means 30/40mph, and in addition there are still many places with 40mph (50mph) roads going through. Speed limit signs don't work. People will drive at whatever speed feels right and this is usually way above 20mph. What works is narrowing the roads. When the carriage way is barely wider than your vehicle it magically makes 20mph feel appropriate and 30mph seem fast (which it is). This has the bonus effect that larger vehicles feel it more, which is perfect considering they are the most dangerous and should be driven by trained professionals who are used to such tight spaces. It essentially makes driving much more stressful, which is exactly what it should be. The problem at the moment is drivers get everything: big, wide, smooth roads, with the best drainage and grading; the easiest and most convenient mode of transport; but none of the responsibility. We need to shift the balance back. You can drive, but it's a big responsibility and if you fuck up the consequences are serious.

pluc 2y ago
Maybe it's just me but every car I've rented while traveling through the UK for the last 3 months starts beeping when you go over the limit. Really helps keep you under it by annoying the shit out of you.
ronnieboy493 2y ago
> Speed limit signs don't work. ... What works is narrowing the roads. Even if you have every intention to stay within limits they don't work. In the US we have these massive stroads in urban areas posted at 35 mph. When I drive (rarely) I have to constantly monitor my speed. It doesn't feel natural and also takes away from, ya know, paying attention to the road. Aside from my opinion that 35 is way too fast anyways. At the same time I've seen people complain that roads which are clearly not narrow, are too narrow because they can't barrel down side streets at 50. But at least it forces them to drive slower. > It essentially makes driving much more stressful, which is exactly what it should be. ... the easiest and most convenient mode of transport ... It boggles the mind. We sit in these big cozy chairs that transport us almost anywhere with little to no effort. It's pretty incredible. Yet, the most minor of inconveniences can cause a lot of car brains to absolutely lose it. Driving feels adjacent to addiction to many Americans and if people don't get their fix they go into complete meltdowns. I think people do find driving stressful, but for the wrong reasons. Sitting a red light? Stressful. Cyclist slowing you down? Stressful. Too many other people are using cars at the same time you are? Stressful. It's stress originating from believing you had the god given right to drive like a maniac at all times. In every part of US cities pedestrian walkways have to cross roads. But really roads should have to cross the walkways. Instead of sidewalks dipping down into four lane highways, roads should have to go up and over sidewalks at intersections. In Amsterdam there was huge expansive brick walkways that cars can use, but they're the foreign entity. Not the pedestrians.