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We can. Slowly over time we need to raise awareness of the benefits of this.

sorcerer-mar 1y ago
Just tax road consumption so people who use the roads actually pay for them. It is amazing what this has achieved in Manhattan.
- notyourwork 1y ago
  Poor taxes are not a great solution with respect to equality.
  - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
    https://www.mta.info/fares-tolls/tolls/congestion-relief-zone/discounts-exemptions https://www.mta.info/fares-tolls/tolls/congestion-relief-zon... Pretty trivial to discount/exempt people as is done in NYC. An even simpler starting point (which we should actually do for all road-related fees like tickets IMO) is to set fees by the KBB value of the vehicle in question. Let people contest them in court if they want.
  - loeg 1y ago
    The population driving into Manhattan is not poor. It's a consumption tax, not a poor tax.
- panick21_ 1y ago
  This is a bad approach. At least if its only that. In Manhatten this works because there is already a decent public transport, already a culture of waking and an established culture of biking. You can just force people into better cities with punishing taxes. You actually have make the roads safer, provide alternatives and so on. And this is easier said then done, almost all cities in the US have zoning codes and other laws that make it completely impossible to build decent urban infrastructure. And the traffic standards are literally 100% backwards to providing safety. In fact, because the traffic standards are so bad that less cars actually kill more people. This is because a lot of traffic slows down vehicle speeds on avg. So basically, if all you are doing is forcing less people to drive, without doing anything else, you are just gone make the roads unsafer, and not improve the city or the lives of most people.
  - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
    You can tax to such levels that you have both the funding for and the road space for a legitimately great bus or tram system. This is unfortunately a problem where, as you say, many issues interact to make it difficult to solve piecemeal in most places. But that doesn't mean we can or should just allow it to fester. I agree zoning and physical infrastructure need to improve in tandem in most places.

Just tax road consumption so people who use the roads actually pay for them. It is amazing what this has achieved in Manhattan.

notyourwork 1y ago
Poor taxes are not a great solution with respect to equality.
- sorcerer-mar 1y ago
  https://www.mta.info/fares-tolls/tolls/congestion-relief-zone/discounts-exemptions https://www.mta.info/fares-tolls/tolls/congestion-relief-zon... Pretty trivial to discount/exempt people as is done in NYC. An even simpler starting point (which we should actually do for all road-related fees like tickets IMO) is to set fees by the KBB value of the vehicle in question. Let people contest them in court if they want.
- loeg 1y ago
  The population driving into Manhattan is not poor. It's a consumption tax, not a poor tax.
panick21_ 1y ago
This is a bad approach. At least if its only that. In Manhatten this works because there is already a decent public transport, already a culture of waking and an established culture of biking. You can just force people into better cities with punishing taxes. You actually have make the roads safer, provide alternatives and so on. And this is easier said then done, almost all cities in the US have zoning codes and other laws that make it completely impossible to build decent urban infrastructure. And the traffic standards are literally 100% backwards to providing safety. In fact, because the traffic standards are so bad that less cars actually kill more people. This is because a lot of traffic slows down vehicle speeds on avg. So basically, if all you are doing is forcing less people to drive, without doing anything else, you are just gone make the roads unsafer, and not improve the city or the lives of most people.
- sorcerer-mar 1y ago
  You can tax to such levels that you have both the funding for and the road space for a legitimately great bus or tram system. This is unfortunately a problem where, as you say, many issues interact to make it difficult to solve piecemeal in most places. But that doesn't mean we can or should just allow it to fester. I agree zoning and physical infrastructure need to improve in tandem in most places.