3 ms·

"Your employees are the result of subsidized education, etc, etc, etc" That's all find and dandy, but the fact is that there are millions out there sitting on

by 13rules 14y ago

"Your employees are the result of subsidized education, etc, etc, etc" That's all find and dandy, but the fact is that there are millions out there sitting on their collective assess while the few of us are doing the work. There are roads, bridges, education, internet, all accessible to them as well, yet they do nothing.

bryanlarsen 14y ago
"the few of us"? Over 2/3rds of all working age Americans have a job. The majority of those who don't are raising kids. The majority of the remainder want a job but can't get one. There are a few mooches, but the few thousand they get every year in food stamps is a drop in the bucket compared what is stolen from the economy each year by those doing "unproductive work" -- ie work that benefits themselves but does not benefit or actively harms society. HFT, patent trolling, bribing politicians, et cetera.
- 13rules 14y ago
  Bad choice of words maybe, but that is what it feels like. Recent reports show that almost 50% of the country is on some sort of government benefit / entitlement. That's absurd and it's a tipping point. Agree with you on your other points as well ... entitlements aren't the only thing that need to be reformed in this country and crony-capitalism is alive and well on both sides of the aisle.
  - Jtsummers 14y ago
    > Bad choice of words maybe, but that is what it feels like. What it feels like and what it is are often at odds with each other. Emotional appeals allow for very sloppy reasoning. We can, and should, do much better than that especially on a forum like this. 50% of the population doesn't pay income tax. The vast majority of them still pay sales and property taxes (even renters pay property tax, though indirectly). If they drive they pay fuel taxes. The majority of that bottom 50% still works. They are contributing to society. They are contirbuting to companies by doing the jobs the companies want them to do. They spend their money on consumer goods and to various service industries. Companies, outside a few industries, don't exist without those customers.
    - 13rules 14y ago
      Property and sales taxes are not what is fueling the benefit/entitlement programs on the federal level, which is what is truly out of control. That is why people cite the 50% of people that don't pay income taxes so much -- we have half of the country paying nothing into the system and about the same amount of people taking out. It's not sustainable. To say that the government needs to keep handing out entitlements because otherwise companies will run out of customers is such an awful argument - and one that I have heard often. If the government would get out of the way the market would respond like it is supposed to -- and prices would come down. Would some companies go out of business? Possibly. But only the companies that were unsustainable without government propping them up to begin with.
      - Jtsummers 14y ago
        Wow, nice reframing. I didn't say the entitlements (Medicaid, unemployment, and other forms of welfare) permitted them to be customers. If that's what you got from my statement, reread it. The majority of them aren't freeloaders. The majority of them work - they provide benefits to companies by making things or performing other services. The majority of them pay other taxes (including payroll taxes, the part funding SS and Medicaid). They spend money on goods and services, which inherently means they're supporting the economy as a whole. To disregard this 50% as a bunch of freeloading losers does not make sense.
        13rules 14y ago
        I just said that 50% of Americans don't pay Federal taxes and about the same amount are on the receiving end of benefits / entitlements. I never called them freeloading losers, I simply stated that those kind of economics are not sustainable.
        Jtsummers 14y ago
        Sorry, you're right. You just said they sit on their collective asses while the minority does the hard work. Payroll taxes are federal taxes. If you're working and not exempt (certain state employees, the Amish and some others), you pay payroll taxes. Since 50% of the population isn't unemployed, that means most of them are still paying payroll taxes, therefore they're paying federal taxes.

by 13rules 14y ago

bryanlarsen 14y ago

"the few of us"? Over 2/3rds of all working age Americans have a job. The majority of those who don't are raising kids. The majority of the remainder want a job but can't get one. There are a few mooches, but the few thousand they get every year in food stamps is a drop in the bucket compared what is stolen from the economy each year by those doing "unproductive work" -- ie work that benefits themselves but does not benefit or actively harms society. HFT, patent trolling, bribing politicians, et cetera.

13rules 14y ago
Bad choice of words maybe, but that is what it feels like. Recent reports show that almost 50% of the country is on some sort of government benefit / entitlement. That's absurd and it's a tipping point. Agree with you on your other points as well ... entitlements aren't the only thing that need to be reformed in this country and crony-capitalism is alive and well on both sides of the aisle.
- Jtsummers 14y ago
  > Bad choice of words maybe, but that is what it feels like. What it feels like and what it is are often at odds with each other. Emotional appeals allow for very sloppy reasoning. We can, and should, do much better than that especially on a forum like this. 50% of the population doesn't pay income tax. The vast majority of them still pay sales and property taxes (even renters pay property tax, though indirectly). If they drive they pay fuel taxes. The majority of that bottom 50% still works. They are contributing to society. They are contirbuting to companies by doing the jobs the companies want them to do. They spend their money on consumer goods and to various service industries. Companies, outside a few industries, don't exist without those customers.
  - 13rules 14y ago
    Property and sales taxes are not what is fueling the benefit/entitlement programs on the federal level, which is what is truly out of control. That is why people cite the 50% of people that don't pay income taxes so much -- we have half of the country paying nothing into the system and about the same amount of people taking out. It's not sustainable. To say that the government needs to keep handing out entitlements because otherwise companies will run out of customers is such an awful argument - and one that I have heard often. If the government would get out of the way the market would respond like it is supposed to -- and prices would come down. Would some companies go out of business? Possibly. But only the companies that were unsustainable without government propping them up to begin with.
    - Jtsummers 14y ago
      Wow, nice reframing. I didn't say the entitlements (Medicaid, unemployment, and other forms of welfare) permitted them to be customers. If that's what you got from my statement, reread it. The majority of them aren't freeloaders. The majority of them work - they provide benefits to companies by making things or performing other services. The majority of them pay other taxes (including payroll taxes, the part funding SS and Medicaid). They spend money on goods and services, which inherently means they're supporting the economy as a whole. To disregard this 50% as a bunch of freeloading losers does not make sense.
      - 13rules 14y ago
        I just said that 50% of Americans don't pay Federal taxes and about the same amount are on the receiving end of benefits / entitlements. I never called them freeloading losers, I simply stated that those kind of economics are not sustainable.
        Jtsummers 14y ago
        Sorry, you're right. You just said they sit on their collective asses while the minority does the hard work. Payroll taxes are federal taxes. If you're working and not exempt (certain state employees, the Amish and some others), you pay payroll taxes. Since 50% of the population isn't unemployed, that means most of them are still paying payroll taxes, therefore they're paying federal taxes.