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They're not acting against the country but against the government. The country may very well benefit largely from the government being impeded.

by Krssst 2y ago

FirmwareBurner 2y ago
The government gave them the visa. When you apply for the visa you interact with the government and they give you the visa. If you check the terms and conditions of your visa, they're tied to you following the laws and not causing any issues otherwise it gets revoked. The moment you try to swing a punch against the government that gave you that visa, then that contract is void, and you're out. I don't see how this is an issue. Are you OK with foreigners coming into your country and starting to go against your democratically elected government(in principle, not just the orange man specifically)? I don't know anyone who wants that. Let citizens deal with their elected government, you can too once you become a citizen, if you want.
- sokka_h2otribe 2y ago
  Why do we have freedom of speech for Americans? One reason is that it is a check on power. The protestors and editorial writers were typically not arrested for breaking laws. Typically there are some rules on protests, and when they are not followed then police are free to arrest people. These people are part of the fabric of free speech that adds value to America. It's messier to live in a country like that, but it stops crazy authoritarian bubbles. I think it's slower at times, but leads to a better outcome. Many American friends I know don't have the same family history surrounding governments like the Nazis, ussr and CCP. These things are worth protecting, and by the time you realize it -- you're too late. This is my response you asked for. Does it help ?
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    Firstly, the First Amendment legally speaking, applies to American citizens, not visitors on a visa. Secondly, there's big difference between free speech (as in saying what you want openly), and congregating to occupying public or private spaces to generate protests, be loud, obnoxious, block foot traffic, cause litter, incite to violence etc. Your speech is free as long as it doesn't inconvenience others. Can I come outside your house, occupy the sidewalk and shout in a bullhorn my political opinions at your window 24/7? No? Why is that? It's just my free speech bro. You see how free speech works?
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  The first amendment of the Constitution guarantees free speech for everybody in the US, not just citizens. This is well established, and is only now being questioned because the current administration is trying to silence viewpoints they don't like.
- Krssst 2y ago
  You can express disagreement loudly with the power in place while still following the laws and not causing "issues" in the way most people think about issues. Whether visa holders have such right depends on the countries however; I don't believe France has such restrictions (https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2190 https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2190 does not mention "political activities" as a valid motive for refusing entry). I think some other countries do restrict political activities for non-citizens.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  > Are you OK with foreigners coming into your country and starting to go against your democratically elected government(in principle, not just the orange man specifically)? Do you mean am I OK with legal residents of the US publicly expressing their political opinions? Yes. Yes, I am. I think it's a good thing, whether or not I agree with those opinions.

They're not acting against the country but against the government. The country may very well benefit largely from the government being impeded.

by Krssst 2y ago

They're not acting against the country but against the government. The country may very well benefit largely from the government being impeded.

FirmwareBurner 2y ago

The government gave them the visa. When you apply for the visa you interact with the government and they give you the visa. If you check the terms and conditions of your visa, they're tied to you following the laws and not causing any issues otherwise it gets revoked. The moment you try to swing a punch against the government that gave you that visa, then that contract is void, and you're out. I don't see how this is an issue. Are you OK with foreigners coming into your country and starting to go against your democratically elected government(in principle, not just the orange man specifically)? I don't know anyone who wants that. Let citizens deal with their elected government, you can too once you become a citizen, if you want.

sokka_h2otribe 2y ago
Why do we have freedom of speech for Americans? One reason is that it is a check on power. The protestors and editorial writers were typically not arrested for breaking laws. Typically there are some rules on protests, and when they are not followed then police are free to arrest people. These people are part of the fabric of free speech that adds value to America. It's messier to live in a country like that, but it stops crazy authoritarian bubbles. I think it's slower at times, but leads to a better outcome. Many American friends I know don't have the same family history surrounding governments like the Nazis, ussr and CCP. These things are worth protecting, and by the time you realize it -- you're too late. This is my response you asked for. Does it help ?
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  Firstly, the First Amendment legally speaking, applies to American citizens, not visitors on a visa. Secondly, there's big difference between free speech (as in saying what you want openly), and congregating to occupying public or private spaces to generate protests, be loud, obnoxious, block foot traffic, cause litter, incite to violence etc. Your speech is free as long as it doesn't inconvenience others. Can I come outside your house, occupy the sidewalk and shout in a bullhorn my political opinions at your window 24/7? No? Why is that? It's just my free speech bro. You see how free speech works?
amanaplanacanal 2y ago
The first amendment of the Constitution guarantees free speech for everybody in the US, not just citizens. This is well established, and is only now being questioned because the current administration is trying to silence viewpoints they don't like.
Krssst 2y ago
You can express disagreement loudly with the power in place while still following the laws and not causing "issues" in the way most people think about issues. Whether visa holders have such right depends on the countries however; I don't believe France has such restrictions (https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2190 https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2190 does not mention "political activities" as a valid motive for refusing entry). I think some other countries do restrict political activities for non-citizens.
JohnFen 2y ago
> Are you OK with foreigners coming into your country and starting to go against your democratically elected government(in principle, not just the orange man specifically)? Do you mean am I OK with legal residents of the US publicly expressing their political opinions? Yes. Yes, I am. I think it's a good thing, whether or not I agree with those opinions.