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Which countries would benefit most from an American brain drain?
- hello_computer 1y agoMost of our “brains” are mercenaries, who are actually a net loss to the country if you judge by anything other than the stock market. Look at what happened to SoCal! You are all welcome to our fintech/biotech/adtech/surveillance “geniuses”.
- jraby3 1y agoSure. Just look at medicine, quality of life, etc. /s
- hello_computer 1y agoraiding old ladies' pensions and listening in on everybody's conversations does not put you in the same game as the guy who discovered penicillin.
- fullshark 1y agoSince you don’t appreciate any of the comforts of modernity, I’ll put this is framing you will understand: The killbot drone race is inevitable and not one you want America to lose.
- hello_computer 1y agopresent tense, mercenary. present tense. contrary to what your ego says, you are not isaac newton. make your drones. kill us all with them. as you gloat, your masters point them at you.
- ItCouldBeWorse 1y agoThey mythos of the genius is riding on the long coat tails of the post-worldwar research/coldwar researchers, where there were hard, cold result deadlines. Todays genius produces "papers" about how "all the low hanging fruits are gone" - as if what was archieved back then was easy because its today served in easy to diggest pedagogic pieces. Then the whole research caste is now in "optimizing tasks" that basically rearrange the economy in a ever belt tightening to exclude the average joe, instead of driving developments, that increase the overall cake for society. How to say it without hurting feelings, but nothing of value was lost...
- hello_computer 1y agoIn those WWII days, you could make an acceptable living doing good research. You wouldn't become a billionaire, but you'd definitely make enough to support a family. Somewhere along the line, it became a winner-take-all gold-rush. That attracts the wrong sort of person: a bunch of miner 49ers who think they're Einstein because the system jammed a little bit of calculus into their heads before they grabbed their picks and shovels and headed west. Here's an old, sad, joke: What's the difference between a physicist and a large pizza? The pizza can feed a family of four.
- intended 1y agoThis is a sad take. Separate these two things out perhaps ? The stuff that’s happening now with enshittified tech and resources being poured into that. Everything that happened before that, which set up the infrastructure.
- hello_computer 1y ago"are" not "were"
- intended 1y agoOh Hey, missed that. Yay synchronicity!
- hypeatei 1y agohttps://archive.is/myWkF https://archive.is/myWkF
- iambateman 1y agoChina. China. China. The answer is China.
- _mlbt 1y agoHonest question, what would be gained by moving from America to China? Their government is by nearly all measures less tolerant, less free, less friendly to foreigners, more racist, and at least as morally evil, but probably more so considering their treatment of the Uyghurs and other minority populations. At least in America if you’re not a fan of the Trump administration we’ll have another leader in a couple years. You can’t say the same for China.
- rany_ 1y agoStability. You said it yourself: > we’ll have another leader in a couple years Depending on how you look at it, it could be seen as a disadvantage. China's policies are generally long-term and stable.
- 42772827 1y ago“I have this terrible illness, but at least it’s chronic.”
- rany_ 1y agoI'm obviously not a fan of dictatorships, I'm just trying to rationalize why someone might prefer China to the US. I think the problem is that the US presidency is too powerful, it might be better to turn the presidency into a ceremonial position. It shouldn't be possible for the president to do all this damage.
- 42772827 1y agoIt’s pretty much going in the US exactly how George Washington predicted. “[Political factions] are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government and destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.”
- bryant 1y ago"All other countries" Britain Canada Germany New Zealand Italy Australia France Spain Switzerland Norway Portugal --- I'm surprised Australia placed relatively low compared to the others. But yeah, that answers the question of which single countries are the most attractive. But none are overwhelmingly importing expats.
- philjohn 1y agoAlong with NZ it's further away from where conferences will be help most likely. That, and the threat of drop bears.
- slashdev 1y agoCracking down on legal immigrants, skilled immigrants makes no sense. That’s what built America. Cracking down on illegal immigration makes plenty of sense. I hope the administration can see the difference.
- bryant 1y agoThey're not really cracking down on one over the other. They're cracking down on what they view as undesirable viewpoints.
- xedrac 1y agoHow so? Everything I've seen from them indicates they are purely focused on illegal immigration.
- barbazoo 1y agoTwo things can be true at the same time
- macintux 1y ago- https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/migrants-in-u-s-legally-and-with-no-criminal-history-caught-up-in-trump-crackdown https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/migrants-in-u-s-legally-an... - https://www.newsweek.com/immigration-legal-migrant-detained-ice-raids-trump-2024014 https://www.newsweek.com/immigration-legal-migrant-detained-... - https://www.npr.org/2025/02/04/nx-s1-5282379/trumps-mass-deportation-arrests-of-non-criminal-immigrants-no-criminal-record https://www.npr.org/2025/02/04/nx-s1-5282379/trumps-mass-dep... - https://truthout.org/articles/trump-administration-has-detained-citizens-as-part-of-mass-deportation-actions/ https://truthout.org/articles/trump-administration-has-detai...
- jmulho 1y agoRights afforded by the US Constitution such as free speech, assembly, and due process extend to everyone in the country, not just citizens. But apparently, there is no right to be in the US. The state department (Marco Rubio) has the power to revoke any non-citizen’s permission. And that is exactly what they are doing right now to non-citizens who are legally in the US on visas for work, school, vacation, etc., if these people do or say something the Trump administration finds objectionable like attending a pro-Palestinian protest. They’ve revoked 500 student visas so far at dozens of universities. Google “revoke student visa”. And since there is no illegality needed, there is no due process necessary. These people are just sent home with no explanation given. In some cases they have no idea what they even did wrong. They can even be kicked out on mistaken identity because there is no due process. This has nothing to do with illegal immigration. These people are in the US legally, and have done nothing illegal. This policy is apparently designed to intimidate anyone who dissents, including citizens. If the Trump administration can find a legal loophole that allows them to harm their enemies they are using it. And if no loophole exists, they are trying it anyway (since Trump’s Supreme Court has already ruled that nothing he does can be a crime). See their actions against law firms and investigations into Miles Taylor (called Trump “unfit”) and Chris Krebs (called the 2020 election “secure”). All this is happening under your nose and you see it as purely focused on illegal immigration.
- juujian 1y agoThat's a good start, but it's not the whole story. There will be a lot of talent returning to China, India, and South Korea, etc., for lack of options. Recent graduates that is. Will be difficult for those countries to take full advantage of these talents, but they might pull it off.
- rcpt 1y agoYes. Immigration is hard. You need to learn a new language, adapt to the local culture and city design, navigate the increasingly hostile immigration system, and distance yourself from your family. In the past, dreams of American opportunity made the tradeoff worth it. But now we're Magaland when the president sometimes crashes the economy on purpose and immigration officials randomly detain scientists at the airport. It's hard to believe that top engineers and aspiring scientists will continue to give it all up for a shot at life here
- aaron695 1y ago[dead]
- gotoeleven 1y ago"Former professional left wing agitator curses cancer" is I think a very unlikely headline.
- woopwoop 1y agoMy grandfather was a (non-professional) left wing agitator who was brought in front of HUAC when he joined the NIH, and also won the Lasker-Debakey award for his contributions to the development of combination chemotherapy.
- jhonof 1y agoOppenheimer was considered to be a left wing agitator, there are tons of very smart people who are pro labour organization which the US has historically seen as left wing agitation.
- keybored 1y agoWe have now been given permission to agitate and keep our IQ identity.
- betaby 1y agoArticle is built on false premises. Notably citing: "in 2022-24, by our calculations, 20m well-educated people wanted to move there, compared with 14m who preferred Canada (which has a much smaller population). " Two things: "wanted" and "actively doing so" are worlds apart. Additionally, other countries have about the same or even more complicated immigration rules. The USA are safe from brain drain. And I'm saying that as a one living in Canada with close friends at McGill University - students still see the USA a primary destination of their interest.
- Whoppertime 1y agoThere's a lot of people who threaten they will move to Canada. Far fewer actually follow through
- mrangle 1y agoIt's almost impossible to get residency in Canada, short of marriage and for most US citizens. If you are a French speaking PhD in a preferred industry who is under 29 years old, you may be gtg.
- 1over137 1y ago>It's almost impossible to get residency in Canada How does that square with the fact that 1/5 of the Canadian population were born abroad? Seems plenty are able to move there.
- betaby 1y agoDiploma mils in particular: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/provinces-cracking-down-on-private-institutions-1.7091194 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/provinces-cracking-down-on-pr...
- mrangle 1y agoI'm paraphrasing my experience in using the Canadian government's own points calculator for residency. That doesn't meant that there aren't special programs apart from that. Because I'm not of the demographic, I didn't dig into how a Chinese, Indian, or African student or family, for example, might qualify for residency under whatever qualifications. Last, I assume that there's been a significant amount of refugee resettlement. But if you are an average person from the US, you may be boxed into the standard calculations.
- publicola1990 1y agoIndia possibly. It's not much in the geopolitical discussion, but in 50 years time, may be earlier, India will have a larger economy than the US. That will truly be then end of the "American Age". Whole playbook which has been applied to USSR, China won't apply either. Even as on today, moving to India and Indonesia and similar countries will bring similar quality of life that people get in the US at a lower cost. Rents, Healthcare, labour all are much cheaper. Interest rates are much higher. You'll even get things like quick-commerce, which isn't really taking-off in the US.
- anonfordays 1y ago[flagged]
- aborsy 1y agoThere is no American brain drain, unlike claimed in leftist media. It’s the opposite.
- daedrdev 1y agoSource it came to me in a dream? Tourism is rapidly down, which I feel like is not a bad proxy on how much people want to go to a place. Add in that the US continues to state it wants to invade greenland and canada.
- dragonwriter 1y ago> There is no American brain drain, unlike claimed in leftist media. There is vanishingly little US "leftist media", and none of it is concerned with a brain drain from the USA. It's mostly outlets in the historically center-right media, including some of those who went out of their way to kowtow to Trump immediately before and/or shortly after the election, that have done so. Unsurprisingly, because "brain drain" is a concern of their corporate capitalist constituency, and not so much of the anticapitalist left. (That said, it is a real and measurable thing, irrespective of what political faction finds it most concerning.)
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- kubb 1y ago> America’s reputation as a land of opportunity for talented immigrants Does America have this reputation? H1B is around 20% success rate, all the jobs are in places with COL so high you’ll never afford a home.
- miros_love 1y agoI'd love for everything described in this article to be true. If the U.S. really were pushing talent away en masse, maybe my odds of getting in would go up. But I have serious doubts. Very few folks are rushing to pay half their salary in taxes, wrestle with EU bureaucracy, and earn 2-3x less pre-tax just to move to Europe. And don’t get me started on bottle caps screwed on so tight you can't drink from them. I could go on about memeI'd love for everything described in this article to be true. If the U.S. really were pushing talent away en masse, maybe my odds of getting in would go up. But I have serious doubts. Very few folks are rushing to pay half their salary in taxes, wrestle with EU bureaucracy, and earn 2–3x less pre-tax just to move to Europe. And don’t get me started on bottle caps screwed on so tight you can't drink from them. I could go on about meme-tier Canada or even more meme-tier Australia. As for India or China - most people didn’t leave just to go back. Sure, Trump is scaring off a few people, but most of those at risk - without roots, degrees, or real work experience - will fight tooth and nail to stay. Deporting one unlucky grad student probably won’t shift the odds in my favor. Pity. Disclaimer: I’m IT-focused. No clue what’s going on with nuclear engineers or scientists. Maybe they live in a parallel universe.tier Canada or even more meme-tier Australia. As for India or China - most people didn’t leave just to go back. Sure, Trump is scaring off a few people, but most of those at risk - without roots, degrees, or real work experience - will fight tooth and nail to stay. Deporting one unlucky grad student probably won’t shift the odds in my favor. Pity. Disclaimer: I’m IT-focused. No clue what’s going on with nuclear engineers or scientists. Maybe they live in a parallel universe.
- bitsage 1y agoThe US is still the runaway leader for funding in research. American expenditure for R&D was 940 billion dollars while the EU’s was 411 billion [1]. I doubt Canada, Switzerland, the Uk, and AusNZ combined come close to matching that gap. If we get the proposed defense budget, that R&D spending will actually go up, just not in matters many people care about immediately. With the zeitgeist shifting, I wouldn’t be surprised if we see an exodus of people in the soft sciences and liberal arts though. It’s not like they’re leaving a lot on the table if they leave America. 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/scientists-us-harried-by-trump-cuts-turn-towards-europe-2025-04-11/ https://www.reuters.com/world/scientists-us-harried-by-trump...
- dogmatism 1y agoA close relative is in fairly rigorous data science in climate based littoral oceanographic research (maintains a couple R packages) doing PhD, funding cut as part of reprisals against a certain governor exploring offers at 3 Canadian universities so, only a couple hours drive further north to continue fairly rigorous data science research yeah, we don't need that "soft science" nonsense here
- Havoc 1y agoDon't think we'll see one. The more likely outcome is US quality of life & prosperity drops sharply. Most people don't have the ability to move easily given that most countries require work visas for US citizens.
- keybored 1y agoI’m gonna assume that Brain Drain means that people who you spent resources as a country to train leave to spend their productive years elsewhere. > Our proxy for talent is respondents who said they had completed an undergraduate degree. Higher education in the US is mostly privatized. Society hasn’t born the cost of those undergraduate degrees. What does the US lose if they leave? There’s also the question of whether other countries need people with undergraduate degrees. Do they need to save money on training their own citizens in liberal arts, nursing, engineering? That’s a bit unclear.
- user32489318 1y agoAs long as funding/economic benefits US offers remain, companies will be attracted to US and no brain drain will take place. EU just cannot offer anything comparable at this moment of time. Higher salaries, more opportunities and seeming less risk aversion of the investors.
- Gud 1y agoSwitzerland.