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"I think the unambiguous answer to this question is that the act of training is viewing and analysis, not copying. There is no particular copy of the work (or a
by basch 2y ago
"I think the unambiguous answer to this question is that the act of training is viewing and analysis, not copying. There is no particular copy of the work (or any copyrightable elements) stored in the model. While some models are capable of producing work similar to their inputs, this isn’t their intended function, and that ability is instead an effect of their general utility. Models use input work as the subject of analysis, but they only “keep” the understanding created, not the original work."
The author just seems to have decided the answer and worked backwards. When in reality this is very much a ship of theseus type problem. At what point does a compressed jpeg not become the original image but a transformation? The same thing applies. If i ask a model to recite frankenstein and it largely does, is that not a lossy compression of the original. Would the author argue an mp3 isnt a copy of a song because all the information isnt there?
Calling it "training" instead of compression lets the author play semantic games.
- Retr0id 2y agoThere clearly is a point when a compressed jpeg becomes a transformation, even if the precise point is ambiguous. Take 'The Bee Movie at 3000% speed except when they say "bee"', for example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7apltfVJBwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7apltfVJBwU. It hasn't been taken down for over 5 years so I'm going to assume it's considered acceptable/transformational use. Personally, I'd say what matters is whether you'd plausibly use the transformed/compressed version as a drop-in substitute for the original. ChatGPT can probably reproduce the complete works of shakespeare verbatim if prompted appropriately, but is anyone seriously going to read it that way?
- basch 2y agoAgreed. So not EVERY LLM is automatically copying in principle, but most of the current implementations probably retain TOO MUCH of the original sources to NOT be copies.
- kemotep 2y agoDo you know that YouTube hasn’t reassigned the video’s ad revenue to the IP holder and the IP holder hasn’t requested it be taken down because they now receive compensation for it from YouTube?
- mdp2021 2y agoThe author in the quote wrote «understanding», whereas the poster here is talking of «compress[ion]», and the two are very different. Understanding a text is not memorizing a details-fuzzy version of it.
- basch 2y agoat some threshold understanding becomes memorization which becomes the ability to recite it. it's not two different things, its points on a spectrum.
- mdp2021 2y ago> becomes Why should it? "The artist sees in the wild horse a metaphor of death, as expressed in the fleeting image painted with solemnity, stillness and evanescence". That could be a (sketchy) example of understanding - and it does not need a verbatim or interpolated text to be there.
- Calwestjobs 2y agoyeah, but is exact wording/data IP or is IP those patterns underneath?