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Once again, our hope is for the Chinese to continue driving the open models. Because if it depends on American big companies the future will be one of dependenc

Once again, our hope is for the Chinese to continue driving the open models. Because if it depends on American big companies the future will be one of dependency on closed AI models.

imiric 2y ago
You can't be serious... You think models built by companies from an autocracy are somehow better? I suppose their biases and censorship are easier to spot, but I wouldn't trade one form of influence over another. Besides, Meta is currently the leader in open-source/weight models. There's no reason that US companies can't continue to innovate in this space.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  To play devil's advocate, I have a sense that a state LLM would be untrustworthy when the query is ideological but if it is ad-focused, a capitalist LLM may well corrupt every chat.
  - signatoremo 2y ago
    The thing is Chinese LLMs aren't foreign to ad focused either, like those from Alibaba, Tencent or Bytedance. Now a North Korea's model may be what you want.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Which is why we can't let Mark Zuckerberg co-opt the term open source. If we can't see the code and dataset on how you've aligned the model during training, I don't care that you're giving it away for free, it's not open source!
chuckadams 2y ago
Ask Deepseek what happened in Tianmen Square in 1989 and get back to me about that "open" thing.
- coliveira 2y ago
  who cares, only ideologues care about this.
  - chuckadams 2y ago
    Caring about truth is indeed obsolete. I'm dropping out of this century.
    - mdp2021 2y ago
      > Caring about truth I suggest reducing the tolerance towards the insistence that opinions are legitimate. Normally, that is done through active debate and rebuttal. The poison has been spread through echochambers and lack of direct strong replies. In other terms: they let it happen, all the deliriousness of especially the past years was allowed to happen through silence, as if impotent shrugs... (By the way: I am not talking about "reticence", which is the occasional context here: I am talking about deliriousness, which is much worse than circumventing discussion over history. The real current issue is that of "reinventing history".)
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Yeah I'm sure every Chinese knows exactly what happened there. It's not really about suppressing the knowledge, it's about suppressing people talking about it and making it a point in the media etc. The CCP knows how powerful organised people can be, this is how they came to power after all.
- fragmede 2y ago
  How about we ask college students in America on visas about their opinions on Palestine instead?
JSR_FDED 2y ago
I’m not sure if it is the Chinese models themselves that will save us, or the or the effect they have of encouraging others to open source their models too. But I think we have to get away from the thinking that “Chinese models” are somehow created by the Chinese state, and from an adversarial standpoint. There are models created by Chinese companies, just like American and European companies.

Once again, our hope is for the Chinese to continue driving the open models. Because if it depends on American big companies the future will be one of dependency on closed AI models.

imiric 2y ago

You can't be serious... You think models built by companies from an autocracy are somehow better? I suppose their biases and censorship are easier to spot, but I wouldn't trade one form of influence over another. Besides, Meta is currently the leader in open-source/weight models. There's no reason that US companies can't continue to innovate in this space.

JKCalhoun 2y ago
To play devil's advocate, I have a sense that a state LLM would be untrustworthy when the query is ideological but if it is ad-focused, a capitalist LLM may well corrupt every chat.
- signatoremo 2y ago
  The thing is Chinese LLMs aren't foreign to ad focused either, like those from Alibaba, Tencent or Bytedance. Now a North Korea's model may be what you want.
- fragmede 2y ago
  Which is why we can't let Mark Zuckerberg co-opt the term open source. If we can't see the code and dataset on how you've aligned the model during training, I don't care that you're giving it away for free, it's not open source!

chuckadams 2y ago

Ask Deepseek what happened in Tianmen Square in 1989 and get back to me about that "open" thing.

coliveira 2y ago
who cares, only ideologues care about this.
- chuckadams 2y ago
  Caring about truth is indeed obsolete. I'm dropping out of this century.
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    > Caring about truth I suggest reducing the tolerance towards the insistence that opinions are legitimate. Normally, that is done through active debate and rebuttal. The poison has been spread through echochambers and lack of direct strong replies. In other terms: they let it happen, all the deliriousness of especially the past years was allowed to happen through silence, as if impotent shrugs... (By the way: I am not talking about "reticence", which is the occasional context here: I am talking about deliriousness, which is much worse than circumventing discussion over history. The real current issue is that of "reinventing history".)
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Yeah I'm sure every Chinese knows exactly what happened there. It's not really about suppressing the knowledge, it's about suppressing people talking about it and making it a point in the media etc. The CCP knows how powerful organised people can be, this is how they came to power after all.
fragmede 2y ago
How about we ask college students in America on visas about their opinions on Palestine instead?

JSR_FDED 2y ago

I’m not sure if it is the Chinese models themselves that will save us, or the or the effect they have of encouraging others to open source their models too. But I think we have to get away from the thinking that “Chinese models” are somehow created by the Chinese state, and from an adversarial standpoint. There are models created by Chinese companies, just like American and European companies.