5 ms·

> I do not disagree with your comment in general, I disagree with you putting "Judaism" while the almost all the critique and rebuke is aimed at the Israeli war

by ath3nd 2y ago

> I do not disagree with your comment in general, I disagree with you putting "Judaism" while the almost all the critique and rebuke is aimed at the Israeli war crimes or the Zionist supremacy ideology. It's good that you brought this up! It's a common right-wing tactic to conflate themselves with the purest version of something that is highly regarded and hide behind it. E.g the Nazis conflated themselves with "pure" Germanness, the fascists in Italy conflated themselves with "pure" Italianness, the same way now Israel conflates itself with Judaism/Jewishness. Then it naturally follows that if you attack Israel's genocide of the people in Palestine, you are attacking Judaism/Jewishness. If you question Netanyahu's genocidal ultra-supremacist ideology (which many Holocaust survivors, Jewish themselves, have done repeatedly), you are anti-Jewish, and so on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4OdkaTqmDs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4OdkaTqmDs A similar thing is happening in the US where the current administration is trying to position itself as America-first, so naturally any critique on them must be anti-American, right? You will find that this playbook is always the same. First will be immigrants, then non-traditional sexual orientations and women's reproductive rights, then the press and universities and finally just whoever they feel like. Fortunately, if history goes to show us anything, it's these hate-fueled-orders always end up imploding.

mmooss 2y ago
> Fortunately, if history goes to show us anything, it's these hate-fueled-orders always end up imploding. That's taking the 'in the long run' analysis to an extreme. In WWII, after hundreds of millions died - including over 10 million murdered by the hate-filled - major parts of the world were devestated, and the free world united in a massive war, the hate-fueled were stopped. They didn't implode. The idea that they will implode is a common fantasy that you (and many others) won't have to do anthing, face their fears, fight an uncertain fight. If you really believed they would implode, the fight would be certain. They won't stop until you stop them.
- ath3nd 2y ago
  > They won't stop until you stop them. Amen!
weatherlite 2y ago
> the same way now Israel conflates itself with Judaism/Jewishness And the same way now progressives conflate Zionists with White supremacists / Nazis.
- ath3nd 2y ago
  > And the same way now progressives conflate Zionists with White supremacists / Nazi Nazism and Zionism are both ultra-right-wing nationalistic ideologies. The conflation doesn't stop on the surface though, but it runs deep in the actions of the two states: The Nazi state during WW2, and the Israeli state: 1. Dehumanizing of "the enemy" A) Israel dehumanizing Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Palestinians_in_Israeli_discourse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Palestin... B) Nazis dehumanizing Jews: https://english.elpais.com/society/2022-12-04/how-nazi-propaganda-dehumanized-jews-to-facilitate-the-holocaust.html https://english.elpais.com/society/2022-12-04/how-nazi-propa... 2. Using war crimes like starvation to "get rid of the enemy": A) Israel starving Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine B) Nazis starving Jews: https://www.nobelpeacecenter.org/en/news/hitler-s-hungerplan https://www.nobelpeacecenter.org/en/news/hitler-s-hungerplan 3. Detention camps and torture A) Israel detaining and torturing Palestinians: https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israeli-prisons-and-detention-camps-designed-torture-palestinian-detainees https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/... B) Nazis detaining and torturing Jews: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps
  - weatherlite 2y ago
    Yes Zionists are the Nazis and Hamas are the good guys I got it. Thanks for all the links I read each and every one of them , especially Wikipedia articles about Nazi concentration camps I've never heard of that.
    - ath3nd 2y ago
      > especially Wikipedia articles about Nazi concentration camps I've never heard of that. Glad to have helped! Here is a quiz to see if you can spot the differences between a Zionist and a Nazi: https://zionism.wtf/ https://zionism.wtf/ By the ways, nowadays it's called a "detention camp": https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-tei... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn7vje365rno https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn7vje365rno But the torture is still torture. Also, this (satirical?) article by the Onion somehow (tragi)comically seems super relevant: https://theonion.com/historians-quibbling-over-exact-definition-of-concentration-camp-sign-of-healthy-society/ https://theonion.com/historians-quibbling-over-exact-definit... I am sure I won't hear the end of it how the torture concentration camp of the Nazis is completely different from the much more civilized and completely different torture detention camp of the Israelis. Israelis' of course, have a high regard for their prisoners' well being, especially considering they call them "animals": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr24GcCDgyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr24GcCDgyM > Yes Zionists are the Nazis and Hamas are the good guys I got it I probably shouldn't bite, but here it goes: Here are some stats even before the current war started. https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/ https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-cas... From 2008 to 2020, the death toll is: - 251 Israeli - 5590 Palestinians Does this seem like a fair exchange, cause it seems like 22x higher death toll on one side? And the current death toll can be seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_co... - 9,901–10,239 Israeli - 104,701–110,887 Palestinians Does this look like a fair exchange? I am sure when some Nazis were killed by the French Resistance, somebody Nazi apologist was saying: "see, French are also bad, because they are killing the poor Germans". However, there is a very important distinction: Palestinians are not the ones stopping humanitarian aid (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-defense-minister-says-no-humanitarian-aid-enter-gaza-tool-pressure-hamas-2025-04-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-defense-mi...), nor the ones shooting medics and ambulances (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBouTY-45c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBouTY-45c), nor the ones repeatedly blowing up hospitals (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjr7l123zy5o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjr7l123zy5o) all 100% war crimes. And nobody says Hamas are the good guys: both the leaders of Hamas and Netanyahu and his genocidal posse are sought to be trialed by the ICC for war crimes (https://www.icc-cpi.int/defendant/netanyahu https://www.icc-cpi.int/defendant/netanyahu). But the parallels between Zionism and Nazism are so obvious, that they even have a wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparisons_between_Israel_and_Nazi_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparisons_between_Israel_and... I am happy to provide you a summary of the parallels: - War crimes and crimes against humanity both by Nazis and by the Israeli state - Dehumanizing the enemy both by the Nazis and by the Israeli state - Withholding aid and using hunger as a weapon both by the Nazis and by the Israeli state - Doing an ethnic cleansing (https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/03/tragedy-foretold-and-stain-our-collective-humanity-special-rapporteur-warns https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/03/tragedy-fore...) both by the Nazis during WW2 and the Israeli state - Both are far-right ideologies based on some feeling of superiority (racial or national/religious) I mean, yeah, there are differences in the "flavor", like fascism in Italy was different from Nazism in Germany and is different than the contemporary genocidal Zionism by the Palestinian state, but the similarities are far more than the small differences.

by ath3nd 2y ago

mmooss 2y ago

> Fortunately, if history goes to show us anything, it's these hate-fueled-orders always end up imploding. That's taking the 'in the long run' analysis to an extreme. In WWII, after hundreds of millions died - including over 10 million murdered by the hate-filled - major parts of the world were devestated, and the free world united in a massive war, the hate-fueled were stopped. They didn't implode. The idea that they will implode is a common fantasy that you (and many others) won't have to do anthing, face their fears, fight an uncertain fight. If you really believed they would implode, the fight would be certain. They won't stop until you stop them.

ath3nd 2y ago
> They won't stop until you stop them. Amen!

weatherlite 2y ago

> the same way now Israel conflates itself with Judaism/Jewishness And the same way now progressives conflate Zionists with White supremacists / Nazis.

ath3nd 2y ago
> And the same way now progressives conflate Zionists with White supremacists / Nazi Nazism and Zionism are both ultra-right-wing nationalistic ideologies. The conflation doesn't stop on the surface though, but it runs deep in the actions of the two states: The Nazi state during WW2, and the Israeli state: 1. Dehumanizing of "the enemy" A) Israel dehumanizing Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Palestinians_in_Israeli_discourse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Palestin... B) Nazis dehumanizing Jews: https://english.elpais.com/society/2022-12-04/how-nazi-propaganda-dehumanized-jews-to-facilitate-the-holocaust.html https://english.elpais.com/society/2022-12-04/how-nazi-propa... 2. Using war crimes like starvation to "get rid of the enemy": A) Israel starving Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine B) Nazis starving Jews: https://www.nobelpeacecenter.org/en/news/hitler-s-hungerplan https://www.nobelpeacecenter.org/en/news/hitler-s-hungerplan 3. Detention camps and torture A) Israel detaining and torturing Palestinians: https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israeli-prisons-and-detention-camps-designed-torture-palestinian-detainees https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/... B) Nazis detaining and torturing Jews: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps
- weatherlite 2y ago
  Yes Zionists are the Nazis and Hamas are the good guys I got it. Thanks for all the links I read each and every one of them , especially Wikipedia articles about Nazi concentration camps I've never heard of that.
  - ath3nd 2y ago
    > especially Wikipedia articles about Nazi concentration camps I've never heard of that. Glad to have helped! Here is a quiz to see if you can spot the differences between a Zionist and a Nazi: https://zionism.wtf/ https://zionism.wtf/ By the ways, nowadays it's called a "detention camp": https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-tei... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn7vje365rno https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn7vje365rno But the torture is still torture. Also, this (satirical?) article by the Onion somehow (tragi)comically seems super relevant: https://theonion.com/historians-quibbling-over-exact-definition-of-concentration-camp-sign-of-healthy-society/ https://theonion.com/historians-quibbling-over-exact-definit... I am sure I won't hear the end of it how the torture concentration camp of the Nazis is completely different from the much more civilized and completely different torture detention camp of the Israelis. Israelis' of course, have a high regard for their prisoners' well being, especially considering they call them "animals": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr24GcCDgyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr24GcCDgyM > Yes Zionists are the Nazis and Hamas are the good guys I got it I probably shouldn't bite, but here it goes: Here are some stats even before the current war started. https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/ https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-cas... From 2008 to 2020, the death toll is: - 251 Israeli - 5590 Palestinians Does this seem like a fair exchange, cause it seems like 22x higher death toll on one side? And the current death toll can be seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_co... - 9,901–10,239 Israeli - 104,701–110,887 Palestinians Does this look like a fair exchange? I am sure when some Nazis were killed by the French Resistance, somebody Nazi apologist was saying: "see, French are also bad, because they are killing the poor Germans". However, there is a very important distinction: Palestinians are not the ones stopping humanitarian aid (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-defense-minister-says-no-humanitarian-aid-enter-gaza-tool-pressure-hamas-2025-04-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-defense-mi...), nor the ones shooting medics and ambulances (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBouTY-45c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBouTY-45c), nor the ones repeatedly blowing up hospitals (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjr7l123zy5o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjr7l123zy5o) all 100% war crimes. And nobody says Hamas are the good guys: both the leaders of Hamas and Netanyahu and his genocidal posse are sought to be trialed by the ICC for war crimes (https://www.icc-cpi.int/defendant/netanyahu https://www.icc-cpi.int/defendant/netanyahu). But the parallels between Zionism and Nazism are so obvious, that they even have a wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparisons_between_Israel_and_Nazi_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparisons_between_Israel_and... I am happy to provide you a summary of the parallels: - War crimes and crimes against humanity both by Nazis and by the Israeli state - Dehumanizing the enemy both by the Nazis and by the Israeli state - Withholding aid and using hunger as a weapon both by the Nazis and by the Israeli state - Doing an ethnic cleansing (https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/03/tragedy-foretold-and-stain-our-collective-humanity-special-rapporteur-warns https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/03/tragedy-fore...) both by the Nazis during WW2 and the Israeli state - Both are far-right ideologies based on some feeling of superiority (racial or national/religious) I mean, yeah, there are differences in the "flavor", like fascism in Italy was different from Nazism in Germany and is different than the contemporary genocidal Zionism by the Palestinian state, but the similarities are far more than the small differences.