3 ms·

But Zionism is not Judaism. Most of the pro-Palestine or anti-Zionist content I see is denouncing Israeli war crimes and genocide. No one is bashing Jews becau

But Zionism is not Judaism. Most of the pro-Palestine or anti-Zionist content I see is denouncing Israeli war crimes and genocide. No one is bashing Jews because of their ethnicity or religion. Also a lot of this comes from the Jews (who are then attacked for being confused or..... antisemitic) We're not at the point of people hunting Jews because they're Jews. We are at the point when opposing targeting/killing medics, press, children or hospitals may result in being kidnapped from the street and either locked up without charges or trafficked to the torture camp. I do not disagree with your comment in general, I disagree with you putting "Judaism" while the almost all the critique and rebuke is aimed at the Israeli war crimes or the Zionist supremacy ideology.

ath3nd 2y ago
> I do not disagree with your comment in general, I disagree with you putting "Judaism" while the almost all the critique and rebuke is aimed at the Israeli war crimes or the Zionist supremacy ideology. It's good that you brought this up! It's a common right-wing tactic to conflate themselves with the purest version of something that is highly regarded and hide behind it. E.g the Nazis conflated themselves with "pure" Germanness, the fascists in Italy conflated themselves with "pure" Italianness, the same way now Israel conflates itself with Judaism/Jewishness. Then it naturally follows that if you attack Israel's genocide of the people in Palestine, you are attacking Judaism/Jewishness. If you question Netanyahu's genocidal ultra-supremacist ideology (which many Holocaust survivors, Jewish themselves, have done repeatedly), you are anti-Jewish, and so on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4OdkaTqmDs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4OdkaTqmDs A similar thing is happening in the US where the current administration is trying to position itself as America-first, so naturally any critique on them must be anti-American, right? You will find that this playbook is always the same. First will be immigrants, then non-traditional sexual orientations and women's reproductive rights, then the press and universities and finally just whoever they feel like. Fortunately, if history goes to show us anything, it's these hate-fueled-orders always end up imploding.
- mmooss 2y ago
  > Fortunately, if history goes to show us anything, it's these hate-fueled-orders always end up imploding. That's taking the 'in the long run' analysis to an extreme. In WWII, after hundreds of millions died - including over 10 million murdered by the hate-filled - major parts of the world were devestated, and the free world united in a massive war, the hate-fueled were stopped. They didn't implode. The idea that they will implode is a common fantasy that you (and many others) won't have to do anthing, face their fears, fight an uncertain fight. If you really believed they would implode, the fight would be certain. They won't stop until you stop them.
  - ath3nd 2y ago
    > They won't stop until you stop them. Amen!
- weatherlite 2y ago
  > the same way now Israel conflates itself with Judaism/Jewishness And the same way now progressives conflate Zionists with White supremacists / Nazis.
  - ath3nd 2y ago
    > And the same way now progressives conflate Zionists with White supremacists / Nazi Nazism and Zionism are both ultra-right-wing nationalistic ideologies. The conflation doesn't stop on the surface though, but it runs deep in the actions of the two states: The Nazi state during WW2, and the Israeli state: 1. Dehumanizing of "the enemy" A) Israel dehumanizing Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Palestinians_in_Israeli_discourse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Palestin... B) Nazis dehumanizing Jews: https://english.elpais.com/society/2022-12-04/how-nazi-propaganda-dehumanized-jews-to-facilitate-the-holocaust.html https://english.elpais.com/society/2022-12-04/how-nazi-propa... 2. Using war crimes like starvation to "get rid of the enemy": A) Israel starving Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine B) Nazis starving Jews: https://www.nobelpeacecenter.org/en/news/hitler-s-hungerplan https://www.nobelpeacecenter.org/en/news/hitler-s-hungerplan 3. Detention camps and torture A) Israel detaining and torturing Palestinians: https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israeli-prisons-and-detention-camps-designed-torture-palestinian-detainees https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/... B) Nazis detaining and torturing Jews: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps
KingMob 2y ago
Got called a "self-hating Jew" for the first time on Mastodon a year ago, for criticizing Israel. Unfortunately for those of us in the diaspora, Israel has really muddied the waters by convincing people that anti-Israel = antisemitism, because it's given real antisemites cover. E.g., like when the ADL came to Musk's defense after his Nazi salute because he officially supported Israel.
- nahuel0x 2y ago
  Almost all far-right / neo-nazis groups with a long (real) antisemitism trajectory like the ones Elon Musk supports are now pro-Israel and pro-Gaza genocide. Sounds weird, but it makes total sense, as: - The Zionist project is an ethno-state, just like those groups want for their countries. This also echoes the Zionist-nazi collaborations before WWII to move jewish population out of Germany to Palestine. - Israel works as an spearhead of the global imperialism configuration, if you support imperialism on the Middle East -as those groups and their bourgeoisie do- you must support Israel. - European neo-nazi groups are militant against immigration, and a big chunk of that immigration to their countries is muslim, so they are more than open to the Israel narratives against the muslim world... even the most extremist ones that de-humanizes Gaza children ("those children are future terrorists").

ath3nd 2y ago

> I do not disagree with your comment in general, I disagree with you putting "Judaism" while the almost all the critique and rebuke is aimed at the Israeli war crimes or the Zionist supremacy ideology. It's good that you brought this up! It's a common right-wing tactic to conflate themselves with the purest version of something that is highly regarded and hide behind it. E.g the Nazis conflated themselves with "pure" Germanness, the fascists in Italy conflated themselves with "pure" Italianness, the same way now Israel conflates itself with Judaism/Jewishness. Then it naturally follows that if you attack Israel's genocide of the people in Palestine, you are attacking Judaism/Jewishness. If you question Netanyahu's genocidal ultra-supremacist ideology (which many Holocaust survivors, Jewish themselves, have done repeatedly), you are anti-Jewish, and so on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4OdkaTqmDs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4OdkaTqmDs A similar thing is happening in the US where the current administration is trying to position itself as America-first, so naturally any critique on them must be anti-American, right? You will find that this playbook is always the same. First will be immigrants, then non-traditional sexual orientations and women's reproductive rights, then the press and universities and finally just whoever they feel like. Fortunately, if history goes to show us anything, it's these hate-fueled-orders always end up imploding.

mmooss 2y ago
> Fortunately, if history goes to show us anything, it's these hate-fueled-orders always end up imploding. That's taking the 'in the long run' analysis to an extreme. In WWII, after hundreds of millions died - including over 10 million murdered by the hate-filled - major parts of the world were devestated, and the free world united in a massive war, the hate-fueled were stopped. They didn't implode. The idea that they will implode is a common fantasy that you (and many others) won't have to do anthing, face their fears, fight an uncertain fight. If you really believed they would implode, the fight would be certain. They won't stop until you stop them.
- ath3nd 2y ago
  > They won't stop until you stop them. Amen!
weatherlite 2y ago
> the same way now Israel conflates itself with Judaism/Jewishness And the same way now progressives conflate Zionists with White supremacists / Nazis.
- ath3nd 2y ago
  > And the same way now progressives conflate Zionists with White supremacists / Nazi Nazism and Zionism are both ultra-right-wing nationalistic ideologies. The conflation doesn't stop on the surface though, but it runs deep in the actions of the two states: The Nazi state during WW2, and the Israeli state: 1. Dehumanizing of "the enemy" A) Israel dehumanizing Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Palestinians_in_Israeli_discourse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_stereotypes_of_Palestin... B) Nazis dehumanizing Jews: https://english.elpais.com/society/2022-12-04/how-nazi-propaganda-dehumanized-jews-to-facilitate-the-holocaust.html https://english.elpais.com/society/2022-12-04/how-nazi-propa... 2. Using war crimes like starvation to "get rid of the enemy": A) Israel starving Palestinians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine B) Nazis starving Jews: https://www.nobelpeacecenter.org/en/news/hitler-s-hungerplan https://www.nobelpeacecenter.org/en/news/hitler-s-hungerplan 3. Detention camps and torture A) Israel detaining and torturing Palestinians: https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israeli-prisons-and-detention-camps-designed-torture-palestinian-detainees https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/... B) Nazis detaining and torturing Jews: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps

KingMob 2y ago

Got called a "self-hating Jew" for the first time on Mastodon a year ago, for criticizing Israel. Unfortunately for those of us in the diaspora, Israel has really muddied the waters by convincing people that anti-Israel = antisemitism, because it's given real antisemites cover. E.g., like when the ADL came to Musk's defense after his Nazi salute because he officially supported Israel.

nahuel0x 2y ago
Almost all far-right / neo-nazis groups with a long (real) antisemitism trajectory like the ones Elon Musk supports are now pro-Israel and pro-Gaza genocide. Sounds weird, but it makes total sense, as: - The Zionist project is an ethno-state, just like those groups want for their countries. This also echoes the Zionist-nazi collaborations before WWII to move jewish population out of Germany to Palestine. - Israel works as an spearhead of the global imperialism configuration, if you support imperialism on the Middle East -as those groups and their bourgeoisie do- you must support Israel. - European neo-nazi groups are militant against immigration, and a big chunk of that immigration to their countries is muslim, so they are more than open to the Israel narratives against the muslim world... even the most extremist ones that de-humanizes Gaza children ("those children are future terrorists").