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> Why the heck are we ok with an entire wing of US politicians that even when they have total control over the government They didn't have total control. That

> Why the heck are we ok with an entire wing of US politicians that even when they have total control over the government They didn't have total control. That was the entire point of the GP post.

tpmoney 2y ago
And my point is somehow the GOP managed to advance their agenda time and time again even when they didn't have total control. So why is the GOP an effective minority party and capable of disrupting the DNCs efforts even when they lack total control of the government, but the DNC is apparently incapable of the same?
- Tadpole9181 2y ago
  I feel like you aren't being given a good answer on this, but I think I can explain. When Democrats wanted, say, the ACA, they followed the rules. Legislation was introduced, and Republicans used the rules of the legislation to fillabust. This could only happen because the party in power followed the rules that allow a party out of power to retain a semblance of representation. With the roles reversed, things have changed. Republicans, quite skilled at the former, do not want their own game used against them. They have done a few things differently, but there is one key one: Congress did not make the tariffs. Instead of following the rules of law, they have abdicated responsibility to Trump through inaction. Trump is, unconstitutionally, declaring national emergencies on topics and using emergency powers to put out edicts. Legislation has effectively stopped their required oversight so the minority party cannot participate. The minority party cannot force legislation or votes through, only the majority chairs can determine the schedule. The minority party cannot do anything to stand against votes for legislation that does not exist. Ergo, this time they are powerless. Republicans aren't playing by the rules, they have installed what is effectively a single-branch government (a monarchy of all things) as a loophole to the checks against their power. Notice that pretty much all opposition is now federal judges? That's by Republican design. All that can be done are raising lawsuits post-facto and hoping for an injunction. And that's why Republicans are now rallying behind ignoring or even firing federal judges. And the highest court is, essentially, owned by Trump himself now.
  - tpmoney 2y ago
    My issue is we're still talking about the GOP as it is behaving now. My question is how were we allowed to get to this point? Trump is declaring national emergencies and using emergency powers, but where did he get those powers from? Why did the DNC allow the executive branch to obtain those powers in the first place? When Trump lost to Biden why didn't the congress spend the next 4 years stripping the executive branch of all the scary powers they had been abdicating over the last century? And sure you might argue that they didn't control both houses, but the reality is they didn't even try. No one will look back on the Biden presidency as a time period under which the DNC fought valiantly to reign in the clear loop holes and abusive potential of the executive branch but were stymied despite their best efforts by obstructionist GOP opponents. For that matter, they didn't even spend the time trying to expand the capabilities of the minority party to better reign in an abusive majority. Let's take your example on the tariffs here. Either this was a power granted before the Trump presidency and one that the DNC should have worked to revoke sometime in the last 4 years if it was so easily abused, or it was a power congress granted this session, in which case why didn't they use that all powerful fillabuster to hold it back? This is what I mean when I ask why we should believe the DNC is even capable of defending this democracy. We are where we are because the DNC apparently found it more convenient to be complicit in the abdication of governmental power to the executive branch on the mistaken belief that those powers would never be abused. Then when Trump was elected for the first time, they didn't take that as a wakeup call and spend the next 8 years fighting tooth and nail "all hand s on deck" to reign in the powers of the executive branch. It's not like Trump wasn't talking up tariff and trade wars before, but apparently the DNC couldn't envision actually losing to him again? Which is another strike against their ability to effectively govern. Twice now (Bush II and Trump) they have supposedly lost the presidency to electoral shenanigans and then managed to lose to the same candidate a second time and that second time lose unequivocally. How? How is this party so inept as to lose a second time by a worse margin to a candidate that they managed to effectively tie the first time?
    - Tadpole9181 2y ago
      I'm sorry, this is hard to take seriously. Yes, why didn't Democrats change our system and model of governance that was working fine, anticipating the Republicans. It's a shame they didn't stop them in... check 1789. 39 years before their party was founded. It's a shame they didn't overwrite the constitution (2/3 majority and state ratification) to be parliamentary. To bad they didn't prevent the head of their executive (ergo military) from having time-limited war time powers meant for emergencies and requiring their review... Right after two world wars, two proxy wars, the threat of cold war, or during a war in the Middle East. Or the use of time-limited emergency powers to direct funds used in organizations like FEMA. Blame, blame, blame. It's always the DNC's fault. They have to know of all threats and be totally unified and work around every obstacle. It's not at all up to, I don't know, the American public not to elect a convicted felon that attempted to overthrow the government, who were found guilty of raping women,who are deplorable, disgusting slobs in every way, and that threaten to go to war with allies. Why didn't the DNC protect us from ourselves? Did you send them letters or calls demanding these actions? It's a democracy. We got what we asked for and what we deserved.
- lern_too_spel 2y ago
  They didn't advance their agenda. They simply blocked the Democrats' agenda. They could do that because the Democrats didn't have total control. Your actual point before you moved the goalposts was that the Republicans were able to block the Democrats, so why can't the Democrats block the Republicans? I explained that in my previous two comments.

> Why the heck are we ok with an entire wing of US politicians that even when they have total control over the government They didn't have total control. That was the entire point of the GP post.

tpmoney 2y ago

And my point is somehow the GOP managed to advance their agenda time and time again even when they didn't have total control. So why is the GOP an effective minority party and capable of disrupting the DNCs efforts even when they lack total control of the government, but the DNC is apparently incapable of the same?

Tadpole9181 2y ago
I feel like you aren't being given a good answer on this, but I think I can explain. When Democrats wanted, say, the ACA, they followed the rules. Legislation was introduced, and Republicans used the rules of the legislation to fillabust. This could only happen because the party in power followed the rules that allow a party out of power to retain a semblance of representation. With the roles reversed, things have changed. Republicans, quite skilled at the former, do not want their own game used against them. They have done a few things differently, but there is one key one: Congress did not make the tariffs. Instead of following the rules of law, they have abdicated responsibility to Trump through inaction. Trump is, unconstitutionally, declaring national emergencies on topics and using emergency powers to put out edicts. Legislation has effectively stopped their required oversight so the minority party cannot participate. The minority party cannot force legislation or votes through, only the majority chairs can determine the schedule. The minority party cannot do anything to stand against votes for legislation that does not exist. Ergo, this time they are powerless. Republicans aren't playing by the rules, they have installed what is effectively a single-branch government (a monarchy of all things) as a loophole to the checks against their power. Notice that pretty much all opposition is now federal judges? That's by Republican design. All that can be done are raising lawsuits post-facto and hoping for an injunction. And that's why Republicans are now rallying behind ignoring or even firing federal judges. And the highest court is, essentially, owned by Trump himself now.
- tpmoney 2y ago
  My issue is we're still talking about the GOP as it is behaving now. My question is how were we allowed to get to this point? Trump is declaring national emergencies and using emergency powers, but where did he get those powers from? Why did the DNC allow the executive branch to obtain those powers in the first place? When Trump lost to Biden why didn't the congress spend the next 4 years stripping the executive branch of all the scary powers they had been abdicating over the last century? And sure you might argue that they didn't control both houses, but the reality is they didn't even try. No one will look back on the Biden presidency as a time period under which the DNC fought valiantly to reign in the clear loop holes and abusive potential of the executive branch but were stymied despite their best efforts by obstructionist GOP opponents. For that matter, they didn't even spend the time trying to expand the capabilities of the minority party to better reign in an abusive majority. Let's take your example on the tariffs here. Either this was a power granted before the Trump presidency and one that the DNC should have worked to revoke sometime in the last 4 years if it was so easily abused, or it was a power congress granted this session, in which case why didn't they use that all powerful fillabuster to hold it back? This is what I mean when I ask why we should believe the DNC is even capable of defending this democracy. We are where we are because the DNC apparently found it more convenient to be complicit in the abdication of governmental power to the executive branch on the mistaken belief that those powers would never be abused. Then when Trump was elected for the first time, they didn't take that as a wakeup call and spend the next 8 years fighting tooth and nail "all hand s on deck" to reign in the powers of the executive branch. It's not like Trump wasn't talking up tariff and trade wars before, but apparently the DNC couldn't envision actually losing to him again? Which is another strike against their ability to effectively govern. Twice now (Bush II and Trump) they have supposedly lost the presidency to electoral shenanigans and then managed to lose to the same candidate a second time and that second time lose unequivocally. How? How is this party so inept as to lose a second time by a worse margin to a candidate that they managed to effectively tie the first time?
  - Tadpole9181 2y ago
    I'm sorry, this is hard to take seriously. Yes, why didn't Democrats change our system and model of governance that was working fine, anticipating the Republicans. It's a shame they didn't stop them in... check 1789. 39 years before their party was founded. It's a shame they didn't overwrite the constitution (2/3 majority and state ratification) to be parliamentary. To bad they didn't prevent the head of their executive (ergo military) from having time-limited war time powers meant for emergencies and requiring their review... Right after two world wars, two proxy wars, the threat of cold war, or during a war in the Middle East. Or the use of time-limited emergency powers to direct funds used in organizations like FEMA. Blame, blame, blame. It's always the DNC's fault. They have to know of all threats and be totally unified and work around every obstacle. It's not at all up to, I don't know, the American public not to elect a convicted felon that attempted to overthrow the government, who were found guilty of raping women,who are deplorable, disgusting slobs in every way, and that threaten to go to war with allies. Why didn't the DNC protect us from ourselves? Did you send them letters or calls demanding these actions? It's a democracy. We got what we asked for and what we deserved.
lern_too_spel 2y ago
They didn't advance their agenda. They simply blocked the Democrats' agenda. They could do that because the Democrats didn't have total control. Your actual point before you moved the goalposts was that the Republicans were able to block the Democrats, so why can't the Democrats block the Republicans? I explained that in my previous two comments.