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Can you remind us whether this bus attack in which 11 people died came before or after the 1948-1949 Plan Dalet during which over 500 Arab villages were destroy

Can you remind us whether this bus attack in which 11 people died came before or after the 1948-1949 Plan Dalet during which over 500 Arab villages were destroyed or depopulated by military forces under the direction of later first prime minister of Israel David Ben-Gurion? The plan's tactics involved laying siege to Palestinian Arab villages, bombing neighbourhoods of cities, forced expulsion of their inhabitants, and setting fields and houses on fire and detonating TNT in the rubble to prevent any return. Zionist military units possessed detailed lists of neighborhoods and villages to be destroyed and their Arab inhabitants expelled. This strategy is subject to controversy, with some historians characterizing it as defensive, while others assert that it was an integral part of a planned strategy for the expulsion, sometimes called an ethnic cleansing, of the area's native inhabitants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet Israelis and Palestinians are largely in the reality they're in due to the violence.

YZF 2y ago
Why are we moving the goal posts? Parent claims the violence is simply due to: "The idea of Hamas wouldn't exist if Gaza (and the West Bank) wasn't occupied by land, air and sea; their land stolen on a daily basis, and Palestinian people treated as subhuman animals." This is not true. And this is what I'm addressing in my reply. We can litigate 1948 as well. Plenty of Palestinian violence pre-1948. Their refusal to accept the UN's partition plan (which was a lot more generous than the two state solution people are talking about today). EDIT: Also I hope you're not trying to say that Israel's actions during the war in 1948 (even if we accept they were in the wrong, which I do not) justify boarding a bus and slaughtering civilians 6 years later. Your last statement I guess is true but not helpful. Plenty of violence to go around.
- michaelsshaw 2y ago
  All military actions made by oppressed peoples is legitimate resistance and your framing of Palestinians as instigators is troubling.
  - gryzzly 2y ago
    not wearing uniform, attacking civilians, capturing hostages and holding your own civilian population hostage by violently taking over the commercial distribution of free humanitarian aid can not be called legitimate in any way
    - michaelsshaw 2y ago
      You're right, Hamas should focus on uniform production(they wear uniform bandanas BTW, watch their videos) while Gaza has a higher proportion of destroyed buildings than Germany in ww2. You certainly got your priorities straight.
      - YZF 2y ago
        They have other problems that are higher priority apparently: "A 22-year-old Palestinian man was tortured and killed by Hamas militants after he criticized the group publicly and participated in rare anti-Hamas protests in Gaza, his family said. Uday Rabie was taken last week by dozens of armed fighters with Hamas’ military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades, in the Tal al-Hawa neighborhood of Gaza City, his brother Hassan Rabie told CNN on Tuesday." - https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/01/middleeast/uday-rabie-palestinian-tortured-hamas-intl-latam/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/01/middleeast/uday-rabie-palesti... And by the way, while they do have uniform, they don't wear them when they fight. Only for celebrations like their marching of civilian hostages. Gaza also has a higher proportion of structures used for military purposes (like all of them?) then Germany in WW2. There have been cities in Germany during WW-II that have been completely destroyed - we can pick that as a comparison. Picking entire Germany vs a tiny area is not reasonable.
      - int_19h 2y ago
        Not massacring civilians by the hundreds would be a good start.
        michaelsshaw 2y ago
        And what about by the tens of thousands?
- za3faran 2y ago
  Easy to refute, here it is from Sheikh Ahmed Yassin himself: https://x.com/incontextmedia/status/1720877046664986750 https://x.com/incontextmedia/status/1720877046664986750
  - YZF 2y ago
    Right and this is exactly why the Hamas covenant says: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem). I mean he must just love the Jewish people. Lovely guy indeed.
    - za3faran 2y ago
      Do not take texts out of context, I'll leave it at that.

YZF 2y ago

Why are we moving the goal posts? Parent claims the violence is simply due to: "The idea of Hamas wouldn't exist if Gaza (and the West Bank) wasn't occupied by land, air and sea; their land stolen on a daily basis, and Palestinian people treated as subhuman animals." This is not true. And this is what I'm addressing in my reply. We can litigate 1948 as well. Plenty of Palestinian violence pre-1948. Their refusal to accept the UN's partition plan (which was a lot more generous than the two state solution people are talking about today). EDIT: Also I hope you're not trying to say that Israel's actions during the war in 1948 (even if we accept they were in the wrong, which I do not) justify boarding a bus and slaughtering civilians 6 years later. Your last statement I guess is true but not helpful. Plenty of violence to go around.

michaelsshaw 2y ago
All military actions made by oppressed peoples is legitimate resistance and your framing of Palestinians as instigators is troubling.
- gryzzly 2y ago
  not wearing uniform, attacking civilians, capturing hostages and holding your own civilian population hostage by violently taking over the commercial distribution of free humanitarian aid can not be called legitimate in any way
  - michaelsshaw 2y ago
    You're right, Hamas should focus on uniform production(they wear uniform bandanas BTW, watch their videos) while Gaza has a higher proportion of destroyed buildings than Germany in ww2. You certainly got your priorities straight.
    - YZF 2y ago
      They have other problems that are higher priority apparently: "A 22-year-old Palestinian man was tortured and killed by Hamas militants after he criticized the group publicly and participated in rare anti-Hamas protests in Gaza, his family said. Uday Rabie was taken last week by dozens of armed fighters with Hamas’ military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades, in the Tal al-Hawa neighborhood of Gaza City, his brother Hassan Rabie told CNN on Tuesday." - https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/01/middleeast/uday-rabie-palestinian-tortured-hamas-intl-latam/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/01/middleeast/uday-rabie-palesti... And by the way, while they do have uniform, they don't wear them when they fight. Only for celebrations like their marching of civilian hostages. Gaza also has a higher proportion of structures used for military purposes (like all of them?) then Germany in WW2. There have been cities in Germany during WW-II that have been completely destroyed - we can pick that as a comparison. Picking entire Germany vs a tiny area is not reasonable.
    - int_19h 2y ago
      Not massacring civilians by the hundreds would be a good start.
      - michaelsshaw 2y ago
        And what about by the tens of thousands?
za3faran 2y ago
Easy to refute, here it is from Sheikh Ahmed Yassin himself: https://x.com/incontextmedia/status/1720877046664986750 https://x.com/incontextmedia/status/1720877046664986750
- YZF 2y ago
  Right and this is exactly why the Hamas covenant says: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem). I mean he must just love the Jewish people. Lovely guy indeed.
  - za3faran 2y ago
    Do not take texts out of context, I'll leave it at that.