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> These things were not really explored in what I've read of Heinlein. I don't know how much further you expect me to need to boil down "read more" and still b

> These things were not really explored in what I've read of Heinlein. I don't know how much further you expect me to need to boil down "read more" and still be able to take you seriously. How do you expect that, when you haven't even bothered trying to justify how you chose those four novels to represent forty years? I see that 'seriously' very much describes how you like to regard yourself. You've insisted most thoroughly others must regard you likewise, regardless of what you show yourself anywhere near capable of actually rewarding or indeed even appreciating. Do you have a favorable impression of your efforts thus far? Have they had the results that you hoped? We would now be having a different conversation if you had said anything to suggest to me it would be worth my trouble to continue in the attempt. I'd have enjoyed that conversation, I think; as most days here, I had hopes of learning something new. You've felt the need to spend the day doing this instead. If you don't like how that's working out, whom fairly may you blame?

n4r9 2y ago
At this point I'm mostly just intrigued to see whether you'll keep replying and whether you'll make any substantial points.
- throwanem 2y ago
  > At this point I'm mostly just intrigued to see whether you'll keep replying and whether you'll make any substantial points. Every substantive point I've actually made all day you have totally ignored, and this is what it's worth your time still to do. But sure. You can stop paying me rent to live in your head any time you like. Keep telling yourself that. I don't doubt you need to, to get through a day. Also, 122d40d7236cd3ade496d0101d8029ec.
  - n4r9 2y ago
    Substantive as in about Heinlein's work, rather than attacks on me or my motivations.
    - throwanem 2y ago
      > Substantive as in about Heinlein's work, rather than attacks on me or my motivations. We could have done that fifteen hours ago [1], or eleven hours ago [2], or nine hours ago [3] [4], or any time you wanted. You haven't. What's changed? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43655066 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43655066 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43657766 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43657766 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43659136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43659136 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43659187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43659187
      - n4r9 2y ago
        I've given you lots of opportunity to offer a defense to the points I raised in my first reply to you. I've offered to go into more detail. I've contrasted Heinlein's work with contemporaneous works. Saying "you should go and read more" is not compelling, especially given the amount of effort you've expended to avoid saying anything of substance. I wonder if you feel insecure about whether such a defense is possible.
        throwanem 2y ago
        > I've given you lots of opportunity to offer a defense to the points I raised in my first reply to you...Saying "you should go and read more" is not compelling...I wonder if you feel insecure about whether such a defense is possible. No, you don't. I've said nothing I need defend, and you've said nothing you can. It would be one thing if I had to say not to piss on my boots and tell me it's raining, but this doesn't even count as pissing. It's just you repeating yourself from yesterday and that's boring for both of us. "You are a bigot" is a factual claim I have made [1], now quite a number of hours and comments ago. You haven't addressed it. You won't. You can't. You have no choice now but to let it stand. You have shown it more true than even you yourself can pretend to ignore. You need someone to tell you it isn't really true, in a way you can believe. No one is here to tell you that. There are other embarrassments, of course; you've shown yourself not a tenth the scholar you fancy yourself to be, nor able to handle yourself even slightly in the face of someone who needs nothing from you and cares neither for nor against you. You would care more that I called you an abuser, but you don't see the people you try to treat that way as human. So what you're really stuck on is that I called you a bigot and you can't answer back. Hence still finding it worth your while to try to talk me into letting you off that hook. Sorry, not sorry. Go back to bed. Read a book while you're there, why don't you? It might help you sleep. edit: You also haven't explained what makes those four books you named as exemplary as you called them. Can you describe the common thread? I ask because I actually have read them, in no case fewer than three times, and they really haven't all that much in common. Oh, by the same author, certainly. But you've only dropped names. You haven't tried to draw any comparisons or demonstrate anything by the rhetorical juxtaposition of those characters, though I grant you keep insisting it must count for something that you listed them. You haven't, so far as I can see, discussed or even mentioned a single event in the plot of any of those novels. For all the nothing you've had to say with any actual reference to them, even the few texts you named might as well not exist! It is extremely risible at this time of you to try to claim you are the one here interested in talking about Heinlein. If there were a God, it would not be safe to tell a lie of that magnitude near a church. But no matter. To get back to the first question I asked here just above: Did anyone actually explain to you why those four should be the first and last of Heinlein worth talking about? Did you ever think to ask? Or was it that they were part of an assignment? - you turned in a paper and assumed the passing grade meant you must have learned something by the transaction, and that for you was where the matter and all semblance of curiosity ended. I hope it isn't that last one. I already believed firmly that student loan relief was the correct action both ethically and economically; as I have said in other quarters lately, it is not possible for you to be enough of an asshole to change my politics. But if this is you recapitulating something you paid to be taught - if you're currently pursuing or God forfend have completed an American university education, and the best approximation of clear thought you can manage is this - then whoever sold you and your family that bill of goods ought damn well be horsewhipped, and that they merely see the loan annulled instead would be a considerable mercy. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43657766 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43657766
- throwanem 2y ago
  And then it turns out that having taken bits and bites out of my entire mortal day, to pursue this pointless argument with you, was just what I needed even if nothing at all what I wanted. It put me in a state of mind where I could find some kind words to say to my family that I think some folks there may have been quite a bit, if in a small way, needing to hear for a while. That's not even slightly to your credit, of course. But I can't fairly say you weren't involved, and I have to admit I genuinely appreciate this result, however inadvertent and I'm sure unimaginable on your part it may be. So, though I say it through gritted teeth, thank you for your time. If for absolutely nothing else whatsoever, for that at least I must express my genuine gratitude. Intolerable though you've been throughout, and despite what I assume to have been your every intention, something good may yet come of your ill efforts. You deserve to know that. May it heap as many coals of fire on your head as your heart should prove small enough to deserve.

n4r9 2y ago

At this point I'm mostly just intrigued to see whether you'll keep replying and whether you'll make any substantial points.

throwanem 2y ago
> At this point I'm mostly just intrigued to see whether you'll keep replying and whether you'll make any substantial points. Every substantive point I've actually made all day you have totally ignored, and this is what it's worth your time still to do. But sure. You can stop paying me rent to live in your head any time you like. Keep telling yourself that. I don't doubt you need to, to get through a day. Also, 122d40d7236cd3ade496d0101d8029ec.
- n4r9 2y ago
  Substantive as in about Heinlein's work, rather than attacks on me or my motivations.
  - throwanem 2y ago
    > Substantive as in about Heinlein's work, rather than attacks on me or my motivations. We could have done that fifteen hours ago [1], or eleven hours ago [2], or nine hours ago [3] [4], or any time you wanted. You haven't. What's changed? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43655066 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43655066 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43657766 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43657766 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43659136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43659136 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43659187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43659187
    - n4r9 2y ago
      I've given you lots of opportunity to offer a defense to the points I raised in my first reply to you. I've offered to go into more detail. I've contrasted Heinlein's work with contemporaneous works. Saying "you should go and read more" is not compelling, especially given the amount of effort you've expended to avoid saying anything of substance. I wonder if you feel insecure about whether such a defense is possible.
      - throwanem 2y ago
        > I've given you lots of opportunity to offer a defense to the points I raised in my first reply to you...Saying "you should go and read more" is not compelling...I wonder if you feel insecure about whether such a defense is possible. No, you don't. I've said nothing I need defend, and you've said nothing you can. It would be one thing if I had to say not to piss on my boots and tell me it's raining, but this doesn't even count as pissing. It's just you repeating yourself from yesterday and that's boring for both of us. "You are a bigot" is a factual claim I have made [1], now quite a number of hours and comments ago. You haven't addressed it. You won't. You can't. You have no choice now but to let it stand. You have shown it more true than even you yourself can pretend to ignore. You need someone to tell you it isn't really true, in a way you can believe. No one is here to tell you that. There are other embarrassments, of course; you've shown yourself not a tenth the scholar you fancy yourself to be, nor able to handle yourself even slightly in the face of someone who needs nothing from you and cares neither for nor against you. You would care more that I called you an abuser, but you don't see the people you try to treat that way as human. So what you're really stuck on is that I called you a bigot and you can't answer back. Hence still finding it worth your while to try to talk me into letting you off that hook. Sorry, not sorry. Go back to bed. Read a book while you're there, why don't you? It might help you sleep. edit: You also haven't explained what makes those four books you named as exemplary as you called them. Can you describe the common thread? I ask because I actually have read them, in no case fewer than three times, and they really haven't all that much in common. Oh, by the same author, certainly. But you've only dropped names. You haven't tried to draw any comparisons or demonstrate anything by the rhetorical juxtaposition of those characters, though I grant you keep insisting it must count for something that you listed them. You haven't, so far as I can see, discussed or even mentioned a single event in the plot of any of those novels. For all the nothing you've had to say with any actual reference to them, even the few texts you named might as well not exist! It is extremely risible at this time of you to try to claim you are the one here interested in talking about Heinlein. If there were a God, it would not be safe to tell a lie of that magnitude near a church. But no matter. To get back to the first question I asked here just above: Did anyone actually explain to you why those four should be the first and last of Heinlein worth talking about? Did you ever think to ask? Or was it that they were part of an assignment? - you turned in a paper and assumed the passing grade meant you must have learned something by the transaction, and that for you was where the matter and all semblance of curiosity ended. I hope it isn't that last one. I already believed firmly that student loan relief was the correct action both ethically and economically; as I have said in other quarters lately, it is not possible for you to be enough of an asshole to change my politics. But if this is you recapitulating something you paid to be taught - if you're currently pursuing or God forfend have completed an American university education, and the best approximation of clear thought you can manage is this - then whoever sold you and your family that bill of goods ought damn well be horsewhipped, and that they merely see the loan annulled instead would be a considerable mercy. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43657766 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43657766
throwanem 2y ago
And then it turns out that having taken bits and bites out of my entire mortal day, to pursue this pointless argument with you, was just what I needed even if nothing at all what I wanted. It put me in a state of mind where I could find some kind words to say to my family that I think some folks there may have been quite a bit, if in a small way, needing to hear for a while. That's not even slightly to your credit, of course. But I can't fairly say you weren't involved, and I have to admit I genuinely appreciate this result, however inadvertent and I'm sure unimaginable on your part it may be. So, though I say it through gritted teeth, thank you for your time. If for absolutely nothing else whatsoever, for that at least I must express my genuine gratitude. Intolerable though you've been throughout, and despite what I assume to have been your every intention, something good may yet come of your ill efforts. You deserve to know that. May it heap as many coals of fire on your head as your heart should prove small enough to deserve.