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This is a really hard problem. Just consider that there are ~150 Muslims for every Jew worldwide. In the USA it's the reverse - 2:1 in favor of Jews, concentrat

by herf 1y ago

This is a really hard problem. Just consider that there are ~150 Muslims for every Jew worldwide. In the USA it's the reverse - 2:1 in favor of Jews, concentrated in particular geographic areas. Imagine what it means to get ranking right here - if you let just 1% of the international population into the USA ranking system, you have a majority in favor of Palestine, and of course these ideas will spread in communities without a lot of people who can represent Jewish history. It's clear to me why this happens, but fixing in an algorithmic but fair way is also extremely difficult.

wesselbindt 1y ago
I think there's an erroneous implicit assumption in your reasoning, namely that to be Zionist is equivalent to be Jewish, and to be anti-zionist is to be Muslim (otherwise, why would you be talking about Jew:Muslim ratios). The fact of the matter is that not every Zionist* is Jewish (in fact, the vast majority of Zionists are christian), and vice versa not every Jewish person is a Zionist (Jewish voice for peace, the ultra orthodox, etc). But even beyond that, I think engaging in censorship to hide an ethnic cleansing is an affront to humanity. * Here, I'm taking Zionism to mean to be in support of the way Israel has formed and continued to form in the past 77 or so years. I am aware that there are many different interpretations of Zionism (to illustrate the breadth; Noam Chomsky considered himself a Zionist), but this particular interpretation is the one that is relevant to this conversation.
- sfx77 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - OhioMan2943 1y ago
    The pager attack indiscruminantly attacked healthcare workers and killed a 9 year old girl and another child. It was the definition of untargeted, immoral and unprofessional. How does eliminating over 3% of a population, of which the majority are women and children amount to anything but deliberate extermination? There is nothing defensive about the IOF, or the army which calls palestinian citizens "human animals" and says "no child is too young to be a terorist"
    - sfx77 1y ago
      There is nothing indiscriminate about attacking Hizbollah pagers. There is however something indiscriminate about attacking civilians like on Oct 7. Targeting civilians as a matter of fact. Even if someone called them "animals" it's hardly equivalent to women being raped and having their breasts cut off, and being stabbed while being raped. That would be "treating" people like animals. Let's not forget who launched this whole war. Hamas.
      - OhioMan2943 1y ago
        There is a strong irony in focusing specifically on the weaponisation of rape in war as an act of terror where the official rabbi of the idf states that rape against palestinians in justified in times of war, and that the idf only has a 1% conviction rate in cases of sexual violences offences against palestinian prisoners by israeli army forces. Even the name of the attack by Hamas "Al-Aqsa flood" is a reference to the decades of persecution and systemic dehumanisation and othering by Israeli forces. The world didn't begin on October 7.
      - sfx77 1y ago
        are you under the impression that 70 years of attacks on Israel are humanitarian? I'm sorry but rape is not ironic. The attacks on Oct 7 were absolutely where this conflict started, as there was a ceasefire or if you want to go further back. How come jews were attacked before zionism? Also Israel is the only party here seeking peace. What's the conviction rate of Hamas rapes? Zero. Also, unlike Hamas, the IDF does not use rape as a tool of war.
        OhioMan2943 1y ago
        How can israel be the only party seeking peace when 90% of the population approved the wars expansion into lebanon, and 90% approved of the renewed offensive, and the use of stronger force in 2025 (israeli democratic/statistical surveys), when Israel broke the ceasefire this year and has taken more territory in the west bank, syria, and now gaza based on recent reports of the new goal of seizing the entirety of rafah. And don't lie about the sanctioning of rape as a tool of war in israel, it is also a society where 50% of don't believe marital rape is an issue, if you want to talk about immorality. https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-seemed-to-permit-wartime-rape/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-... There is only one colonialist expansionist force in the region.
  - igravious 1y ago
    > This is nonsense, there is no genocide, ethnic cleansing, apartheid or anything of the sort. False. False. False. ‣ re: genocide [genocide Gaza](https://www.google.com/search?q=genocide%20gaza https://www.google.com/search?q=genocide%20gaza) ‣ re: ethnic cleansing [ethnic cleansing](https://www.google.com/search?q=ethnic%20cleansing%20israel https://www.google.com/search?q=ethnic%20cleansing%20israel) ‣ re: apartheid [apartheid `Israel`](https://www.google.com/search?q=apartheid%20israel https://www.google.com/search?q=apartheid%20israel) What does it say about your view of the world that what you claim to be nonsense are in demonstrable facts of reality? I'm not going to spend half-an-hour posting and explaining each and every link from pages and pages and simple Google searches. To summarize: (1) The architecture of oppression in that part of the world has been characterized as apartheid [“Israel imposing apartheid on Palestinians, says former Mossad chief”](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposing-apartheid-on-palestinians-says-former-mossad-chief https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposin...) by many many many individuals (both Israeli and non-Israeli) and organization. You say there's no apartheid and yet a former Mossad chief says there is. In order for there to be an apartheid there must be an architecture of oppression. `Israel` is intent on resolving the conflict arising directly from this oppression by removing the source of the problem, that is to say by (2) ethnic cleansing which is why the Naqba, the forced expulsion of ~750,000 people with no right to return in contradistinction to the so-called "right of return" worldwide Jewry with no links to the land beyond ancient ancient religious history, and (3) it tuns out now as we can all see with our very own eyes that `Israel` is now also willing to take the ultimate step, they are willing to commit genocide. They told us they were going to commit genocide. They then proceeded to carry out a genocide (which they paused and restarted) and they boast about committing a genocide. The ICJ rules that what `Israel` is in the process of carrying out what conceivably amounts to genocide and the ICC incredibly announced arrest warrants for the European-born Benjamin Netanyahu (sorry, I mean Benzion Mileikowsky) and Yoav Gallant. The horror we've witnessed on a daily basis and you deny reality to its face. > If you read about the history of the conflict, every single time Israel has defended itself against Hamas (Israel has responded 100% defensively) False. `Israel`, with the backing of the USA, is an occupying power. By definition an occupying power is an oppressor. Every people have a right under international law to resist oppression, to resist occupation. If and when they do resist the occupying power is not "defending itself" the occupying power seeks to perpetuate the architecture of oppression. > it's been called a genocide. [every single time Israel has defended itself it's been called a genocide.] False. I want to point out that even though what you're saying is false† … even if it were true (which it is not†) … it doesn't negate that what is presently taking place in Gaza is tantamount to genocide. That's a transparent fallacy. Say I went around calling every animal I saw a cow. I see a cat and call it a cow. I see a dog and call it a cow. You get the idea. I'd be misclassifying animals, right? (Misclassifying them as cows). Now let's say that I then see a cow and called it a cow. Just because I had up to this point been misclassifying animals (as cows) it doesn't then follow that cows are not cows. That's how unsophisticated your argument is. > Even the blockage was called a genocide. blockade‡ False. Gaza is under an air/land/sea blockade which is illegal under international law. The blockade has not been in any remotely widespread fashion called a genocide. > Also the pager attack, which was the most targeted attack in history, has been called a genocide. This nonsense has to stop. False. Perhaps they were to some degree but not a all widely and not by prominent voices. > Also yes, anti-zionism is anti-semitism. False. categorically and demonstrably false … take [Betar Worldwide](https://betarus.org/ https://betarus.org/) … on their homepage they say “WE ARE BETAR: LOUD PROUD ZIONIST ACTIVISTS WE STAND STRONG JEWS FIGHT BACK LEAD PROUD FIGHT ANTI SEMITISM” … loud proud Zionist activists” (got that?) … this is the same org who on who have posted three times on April the 5th (2025) that “They are all Nazis.” with an image with the text “THERE ARE NO INNOCENTS IN GAZA” [They are all Nazis.](https://x.com/Betar_USA/status/1908369503630606404 https://x.com/Betar_USA/status/1908369503630606404) … not to mention the actual government of Israel itself* [“THERE ARE NO INNOCENT CIVILIANS THERE.”](https://x.com/DrJillStein/status/1802832054280950263 https://x.com/DrJillStein/status/1802832054280950263) and I'm presuming the government of Israel is Zionist – given that Zionism in its present form is a genocidal movement criticism of Zionism cannot be antisemitism. We must be able to criticize genocide. Saying “anti-zionism is anti-semitism” is a false equivalence and tries to use cancel culture tactics to silence dissent. It's a disgusting underhanded maneuver. > Zion is a mountain in jerusalem, mount zion. Jews gravitate towards Jerusalem and "Zion" in the same way Muslims gravitate towards Mecca. It's like if I wanted to destroy Mecca, but said I'm not anti-muslim. It's a ridiculous argument. Huh? So what if that is where the Zion in Zionism/Zionist originates from. What a nonsense (to use the categorization that you employed) argument. You made at least eight factually incorrect claims in the space of 123 words according to my word count. That's a factual error once every 15 words. To me nowadays that is what Zionism is; it is counterfactual to its core and has become pro-genocidal – in fact in hindsight the genocide was built into the ideology. † as in, it is false that whenever `Israel` responds to Palestinian resistance that said response is consistently deemed to be genocide – I've been following the `Israel`/Palestine so-called conflict for all of my adult life and this present horror that is being unleashed in Gaza post Oct. 7th is the first time many and multiple serious voices have called what Israel is doing genocide. ‡ [Blockade of the Gaza Strip](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip)

by herf 1y ago

wesselbindt 1y ago

I think there's an erroneous implicit assumption in your reasoning, namely that to be Zionist is equivalent to be Jewish, and to be anti-zionist is to be Muslim (otherwise, why would you be talking about Jew:Muslim ratios). The fact of the matter is that not every Zionist* is Jewish (in fact, the vast majority of Zionists are christian), and vice versa not every Jewish person is a Zionist (Jewish voice for peace, the ultra orthodox, etc). But even beyond that, I think engaging in censorship to hide an ethnic cleansing is an affront to humanity. * Here, I'm taking Zionism to mean to be in support of the way Israel has formed and continued to form in the past 77 or so years. I am aware that there are many different interpretations of Zionism (to illustrate the breadth; Noam Chomsky considered himself a Zionist), but this particular interpretation is the one that is relevant to this conversation.

sfx77 1y ago
[flagged]
- OhioMan2943 1y ago
  The pager attack indiscruminantly attacked healthcare workers and killed a 9 year old girl and another child. It was the definition of untargeted, immoral and unprofessional. How does eliminating over 3% of a population, of which the majority are women and children amount to anything but deliberate extermination? There is nothing defensive about the IOF, or the army which calls palestinian citizens "human animals" and says "no child is too young to be a terorist"
  - sfx77 1y ago
    There is nothing indiscriminate about attacking Hizbollah pagers. There is however something indiscriminate about attacking civilians like on Oct 7. Targeting civilians as a matter of fact. Even if someone called them "animals" it's hardly equivalent to women being raped and having their breasts cut off, and being stabbed while being raped. That would be "treating" people like animals. Let's not forget who launched this whole war. Hamas.
    - OhioMan2943 1y ago
      There is a strong irony in focusing specifically on the weaponisation of rape in war as an act of terror where the official rabbi of the idf states that rape against palestinians in justified in times of war, and that the idf only has a 1% conviction rate in cases of sexual violences offences against palestinian prisoners by israeli army forces. Even the name of the attack by Hamas "Al-Aqsa flood" is a reference to the decades of persecution and systemic dehumanisation and othering by Israeli forces. The world didn't begin on October 7.
    - sfx77 1y ago
      are you under the impression that 70 years of attacks on Israel are humanitarian? I'm sorry but rape is not ironic. The attacks on Oct 7 were absolutely where this conflict started, as there was a ceasefire or if you want to go further back. How come jews were attacked before zionism? Also Israel is the only party here seeking peace. What's the conviction rate of Hamas rapes? Zero. Also, unlike Hamas, the IDF does not use rape as a tool of war.
      - OhioMan2943 1y ago
        How can israel be the only party seeking peace when 90% of the population approved the wars expansion into lebanon, and 90% approved of the renewed offensive, and the use of stronger force in 2025 (israeli democratic/statistical surveys), when Israel broke the ceasefire this year and has taken more territory in the west bank, syria, and now gaza based on recent reports of the new goal of seizing the entirety of rafah. And don't lie about the sanctioning of rape as a tool of war in israel, it is also a society where 50% of don't believe marital rape is an issue, if you want to talk about immorality. https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-seemed-to-permit-wartime-rape/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-... There is only one colonialist expansionist force in the region.
- igravious 1y ago
  > This is nonsense, there is no genocide, ethnic cleansing, apartheid or anything of the sort. False. False. False. ‣ re: genocide [genocide Gaza](https://www.google.com/search?q=genocide%20gaza https://www.google.com/search?q=genocide%20gaza) ‣ re: ethnic cleansing [ethnic cleansing](https://www.google.com/search?q=ethnic%20cleansing%20israel https://www.google.com/search?q=ethnic%20cleansing%20israel) ‣ re: apartheid [apartheid `Israel`](https://www.google.com/search?q=apartheid%20israel https://www.google.com/search?q=apartheid%20israel) What does it say about your view of the world that what you claim to be nonsense are in demonstrable facts of reality? I'm not going to spend half-an-hour posting and explaining each and every link from pages and pages and simple Google searches. To summarize: (1) The architecture of oppression in that part of the world has been characterized as apartheid [“Israel imposing apartheid on Palestinians, says former Mossad chief”](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposing-apartheid-on-palestinians-says-former-mossad-chief https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposin...) by many many many individuals (both Israeli and non-Israeli) and organization. You say there's no apartheid and yet a former Mossad chief says there is. In order for there to be an apartheid there must be an architecture of oppression. `Israel` is intent on resolving the conflict arising directly from this oppression by removing the source of the problem, that is to say by (2) ethnic cleansing which is why the Naqba, the forced expulsion of ~750,000 people with no right to return in contradistinction to the so-called "right of return" worldwide Jewry with no links to the land beyond ancient ancient religious history, and (3) it tuns out now as we can all see with our very own eyes that `Israel` is now also willing to take the ultimate step, they are willing to commit genocide. They told us they were going to commit genocide. They then proceeded to carry out a genocide (which they paused and restarted) and they boast about committing a genocide. The ICJ rules that what `Israel` is in the process of carrying out what conceivably amounts to genocide and the ICC incredibly announced arrest warrants for the European-born Benjamin Netanyahu (sorry, I mean Benzion Mileikowsky) and Yoav Gallant. The horror we've witnessed on a daily basis and you deny reality to its face. > If you read about the history of the conflict, every single time Israel has defended itself against Hamas (Israel has responded 100% defensively) False. `Israel`, with the backing of the USA, is an occupying power. By definition an occupying power is an oppressor. Every people have a right under international law to resist oppression, to resist occupation. If and when they do resist the occupying power is not "defending itself" the occupying power seeks to perpetuate the architecture of oppression. > it's been called a genocide. [every single time Israel has defended itself it's been called a genocide.] False. I want to point out that even though what you're saying is false† … even if it were true (which it is not†) … it doesn't negate that what is presently taking place in Gaza is tantamount to genocide. That's a transparent fallacy. Say I went around calling every animal I saw a cow. I see a cat and call it a cow. I see a dog and call it a cow. You get the idea. I'd be misclassifying animals, right? (Misclassifying them as cows). Now let's say that I then see a cow and called it a cow. Just because I had up to this point been misclassifying animals (as cows) it doesn't then follow that cows are not cows. That's how unsophisticated your argument is. > Even the blockage was called a genocide. blockade‡ False. Gaza is under an air/land/sea blockade which is illegal under international law. The blockade has not been in any remotely widespread fashion called a genocide. > Also the pager attack, which was the most targeted attack in history, has been called a genocide. This nonsense has to stop. False. Perhaps they were to some degree but not a all widely and not by prominent voices. > Also yes, anti-zionism is anti-semitism. False. categorically and demonstrably false … take [Betar Worldwide](https://betarus.org/ https://betarus.org/) … on their homepage they say “WE ARE BETAR: LOUD PROUD ZIONIST ACTIVISTS WE STAND STRONG JEWS FIGHT BACK LEAD PROUD FIGHT ANTI SEMITISM” … loud proud Zionist activists” (got that?) … this is the same org who on who have posted three times on April the 5th (2025) that “They are all Nazis.” with an image with the text “THERE ARE NO INNOCENTS IN GAZA” [They are all Nazis.](https://x.com/Betar_USA/status/1908369503630606404 https://x.com/Betar_USA/status/1908369503630606404) … not to mention the actual government of Israel itself* [“THERE ARE NO INNOCENT CIVILIANS THERE.”](https://x.com/DrJillStein/status/1802832054280950263 https://x.com/DrJillStein/status/1802832054280950263) and I'm presuming the government of Israel is Zionist – given that Zionism in its present form is a genocidal movement criticism of Zionism cannot be antisemitism. We must be able to criticize genocide. Saying “anti-zionism is anti-semitism” is a false equivalence and tries to use cancel culture tactics to silence dissent. It's a disgusting underhanded maneuver. > Zion is a mountain in jerusalem, mount zion. Jews gravitate towards Jerusalem and "Zion" in the same way Muslims gravitate towards Mecca. It's like if I wanted to destroy Mecca, but said I'm not anti-muslim. It's a ridiculous argument. Huh? So what if that is where the Zion in Zionism/Zionist originates from. What a nonsense (to use the categorization that you employed) argument. You made at least eight factually incorrect claims in the space of 123 words according to my word count. That's a factual error once every 15 words. To me nowadays that is what Zionism is; it is counterfactual to its core and has become pro-genocidal – in fact in hindsight the genocide was built into the ideology. † as in, it is false that whenever `Israel` responds to Palestinian resistance that said response is consistently deemed to be genocide – I've been following the `Israel`/Palestine so-called conflict for all of my adult life and this present horror that is being unleashed in Gaza post Oct. 7th is the first time many and multiple serious voices have called what Israel is doing genocide. ‡ [Blockade of the Gaza Strip](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip)