4 ms·

HRW is a "complicated" organization. It took money from Saudis in return for not advocating for LGBT rights in the middle east [1]. It agreed to take money from

by breppp 2y ago

HRW is a "complicated" organization. It took money from Saudis in return for not advocating for LGBT rights in the middle east [1]. It agreed to take money from the Qatari government, a government that also supports Hamas [2][3] and is involved in corruption cases and buying of politicians all over the world. [1] https://theintercept.com/2020/03/02/human-rights-watch-took-money-from-saudi-businessman-after-documenting-his-coercive-labor-practices/ https://theintercept.com/2020/03/02/human-rights-watch-took-... [2] https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/1700763578-human-rights-watch-under-fire-for-allegedly-accepting-millions-in-qatar-funds https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/1700763578-human-... [3] https://www.memri.org/reports/raven-project-leaks-alleged-qatari-support-3-million-euros-human-rights-watch#_edn1 https://www.memri.org/reports/raven-project-leaks-alleged-qa...

someotherperson 2y ago
This feels like a dog whistle rather than providing something substantive. The Israeli government also helped facilitate Qatar's support for Hamas[0], what's your point here? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas#Israeli_backing_of_Qatar_sending_millions_of_dollars_to_Gaza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas#Isra...
- nickff 2y ago
  Not previously involved in this discussion, but what exactly is the 'dog-whistle' you're calling out here? It seems that you're engaging in whataboutism; is that what you believe the parent is doing as well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
  - someotherperson 2y ago
    > In politics, a dog whistle is the use of coded or suggestive language in political messaging to garner support from a particular group without provoking opposition The nonsensical references to Qatar and Hamas while pushing conspiracies around a human rights group are standard Hasbara talking points.
    - nickff 2y ago
      You're asserting a dog-whistle for anti-arab racism, or anti-islam discrimination? Those references seem more like whataboutism than some sort of dog-whistle.
- breppp 2y ago
  The Israeli government allowed transfer of Qatari money to Hamas as a mean to buy quiet, stemmed from the belief Hamas is a rational organization that strives to improve Palestinian life through its government of the Gaza Strip, an awful mistake. Qatar however is a supporter of the islamist Muslim Brotherhood ideology behind Hamas, financier and a host for most of its leadership. Furthermore involved in other terror financing in the region such as the Taliban, IRGC and Al-Qaeda [1][2]. My point here is the HRW has shown before to be corrupted and flexible with their ethics in relation to the middle east, and there is evidence it took money from Qatar, a country deeply involved in this conflict and in the past used bribery in corruption to influence western politics [3] [1] https://thearabweekly.com/ahmadinejad-reveals-qatar-paid-ransom-irgc-fighters-2012 https://thearabweekly.com/ahmadinejad-reveals-qatar-paid-ran... [2] https://www.iar-gwu.org/print-archive/an-analysis-of-qatari-connections-to-illicit-terror-financing-and-the-resulting-foreign-policy-implications https://www.iar-gwu.org/print-archive/an-analysis-of-qatari-... [3] https://www.politico.eu/article/european-parliament-qatargate-corruption-scandal-leaked-documents-pier-antonio-panzeri-francesco-giorgi-eva-kaili/ https://www.politico.eu/article/european-parliament-qatargat...
  - someotherperson 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - breppp 2y ago
      So in your opinion Israel has planned on having Hamas massacre its citizens on this scale? The approach over the last decade or so was to keep that border quiet. Usually through economic means, the belief was the naive capitalist notion that lack of money creates evil (crime, war, etc) Contrary to the popular belief, Israel as evident in the multiple operations l/wars over a decade, did not want to capture the strip. It was obvious that fighting an enemy entrenched in tunnels/hospitals/schools will lead to mass civilian death and IDF soldiers (overstated though). However, in hindsight this also made things worse once that was made inevitable. You can see it in the Qatar money, agreeing to let dual-use materials that had been used to build tunnels and to allow gazans workers to work in Israel, as recent as just before October 7. Regarding whether Israeli officials pleaded for that money, that is not an accurate representation, you can read about it here [1]. The reasons include US pressure and cutting funds from the PA to Hamas, and wanting to keep the quiet. It is also stated they wanted to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state through counterweighting Hamas and the PA but I think this is a later exercise. This deal was highly unpopular in Israel and was regarded as what it is, protection money Also, cult, really? Are you always this offensive or only with regard to this topic? [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-funds-israel-backing-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-fu...

by breppp 2y ago

someotherperson 2y ago

This feels like a dog whistle rather than providing something substantive. The Israeli government also helped facilitate Qatar's support for Hamas[0], what's your point here? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas#Israeli_backing_of_Qatar_sending_millions_of_dollars_to_Gaza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas#Isra...

nickff 2y ago
Not previously involved in this discussion, but what exactly is the 'dog-whistle' you're calling out here? It seems that you're engaging in whataboutism; is that what you believe the parent is doing as well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- someotherperson 2y ago
  > In politics, a dog whistle is the use of coded or suggestive language in political messaging to garner support from a particular group without provoking opposition The nonsensical references to Qatar and Hamas while pushing conspiracies around a human rights group are standard Hasbara talking points.
  - nickff 2y ago
    You're asserting a dog-whistle for anti-arab racism, or anti-islam discrimination? Those references seem more like whataboutism than some sort of dog-whistle.
breppp 2y ago
The Israeli government allowed transfer of Qatari money to Hamas as a mean to buy quiet, stemmed from the belief Hamas is a rational organization that strives to improve Palestinian life through its government of the Gaza Strip, an awful mistake. Qatar however is a supporter of the islamist Muslim Brotherhood ideology behind Hamas, financier and a host for most of its leadership. Furthermore involved in other terror financing in the region such as the Taliban, IRGC and Al-Qaeda [1][2]. My point here is the HRW has shown before to be corrupted and flexible with their ethics in relation to the middle east, and there is evidence it took money from Qatar, a country deeply involved in this conflict and in the past used bribery in corruption to influence western politics [3] [1] https://thearabweekly.com/ahmadinejad-reveals-qatar-paid-ransom-irgc-fighters-2012 https://thearabweekly.com/ahmadinejad-reveals-qatar-paid-ran... [2] https://www.iar-gwu.org/print-archive/an-analysis-of-qatari-connections-to-illicit-terror-financing-and-the-resulting-foreign-policy-implications https://www.iar-gwu.org/print-archive/an-analysis-of-qatari-... [3] https://www.politico.eu/article/european-parliament-qatargate-corruption-scandal-leaked-documents-pier-antonio-panzeri-francesco-giorgi-eva-kaili/ https://www.politico.eu/article/european-parliament-qatargat...
- someotherperson 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - breppp 2y ago
    So in your opinion Israel has planned on having Hamas massacre its citizens on this scale? The approach over the last decade or so was to keep that border quiet. Usually through economic means, the belief was the naive capitalist notion that lack of money creates evil (crime, war, etc) Contrary to the popular belief, Israel as evident in the multiple operations l/wars over a decade, did not want to capture the strip. It was obvious that fighting an enemy entrenched in tunnels/hospitals/schools will lead to mass civilian death and IDF soldiers (overstated though). However, in hindsight this also made things worse once that was made inevitable. You can see it in the Qatar money, agreeing to let dual-use materials that had been used to build tunnels and to allow gazans workers to work in Israel, as recent as just before October 7. Regarding whether Israeli officials pleaded for that money, that is not an accurate representation, you can read about it here [1]. The reasons include US pressure and cutting funds from the PA to Hamas, and wanting to keep the quiet. It is also stated they wanted to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state through counterweighting Hamas and the PA but I think this is a later exercise. This deal was highly unpopular in Israel and was regarded as what it is, protection money Also, cult, really? Are you always this offensive or only with regard to this topic? [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-funds-israel-backing-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-fu...