6 ms·

US President endorses bill to lock the clocks in current Daylight Savings Time

45 points by ivewonyoung 2y ago

josefritzishere 2y ago
This is literally the only topic where I've ever agreed with the oompa loompa.
duxup 2y ago
I feel like I would like this until winter. Then I'll wish we changed it again, but then in by summer I will change my mind again.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  I prefer longer daylight in the evenings. Dark mornings don't bother me.
  - mjevans 2y ago
    So you like summer more than winter. (Longer evenings could be had if jobs let out earlier in the day, or even better, gave employees the option to shift their time.)
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      Yes, but even in winter when we move back to standard time it's dark at 4 in the afternoon. I'd rather stay with DST year round. A lot of jobs already offer time shifting where it's feasible. In many jobs it's not.
exabrial 2y ago
I'm the odd person out, I actually don't mind it. Yeah it's inconvenient for about a few days, but I prefer being awake during the sunlight of the winter.
- School-Cotton 2y ago
  Why not just wake up an hour earlier, then?
  - mindcrime 2y ago
    A lot of people don't have the freedom to live their lives by scheduling around when the sun is up. Very large swathes of the population are tied to jobs with strict hours that they are required to be physically present somewhere (or at least online) and don't have a lot of room to flex from that. That limits their ability to take advantage of the longer summertime days by just "get up earlier" or "just leave work early" or what-not. Me, I would love to see DST made permanent for that exact reason: I want the most available daylight after I can leave my job, so I have light for mountain biking, fishing, etc. But that's just me.
    - School-Cotton 2y ago
      Okay, but won’t whatever cultural forces caused your job to be 9-5 (or whatever) under standard time eventually cause it to drift to 10-6 under +1 offset time, and then you haven’t gained anything? At that point will we offset by another hour, and so on ad infinitum? I sometimes feel like arguments advocating for permanent DST think there’s something magical about the numbers “9” and “5” that made the 9-5 workday the standard, (rather than “three hours before midday” and “five hours after midday”), so that if we just change what times 9 and 5 refer to, things will work out…
      - floxy 2y ago
        I'm curious what factors might cause the job start time to drift? Isn't this a coordination problem? You want all of you employees to start at the same time, so the assembly line can keep operating. All the kids start school at the same time, so they can all be instructed at the same time.
      - mindcrime 2y ago
        Okay, but won’t whatever cultural forces caused your job to be 9-5 (or whatever) under standard time eventually cause it to drift to 10-6 under +1 offset time, and then you haven’t gained anything? Sure, probably. But how does that help me today? Of course I'm not literally just talking about myself per-se, but I expect that line of thought is how most people would view this. Who wants to wait a couple of years[1] for schedule drift to allow them to live a normal life? [1]: would it actually be that long? I have no idea, TBH. But from a risk aversion viewpoint, one would probably prefer to already known scenario that optimizes for available sunlight after work.
oytis 2y ago
Well, that one actually makes sense
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
artursapek 2y ago
[flagged]
gkoberger 2y ago
They've flipped back and forth over the years, and the length has been tweaked as recently as 2007. I think that what happens is everyone blames DST, but the real culprit is just that the days are shorter in the winter and there's not much we can do about it.
School-Cotton 2y ago
Changing the numbers so that 1pm, rather than 12pm, now means noon is pointless and arbitrary, but if it makes people happy, whatever. I’d prefer we just switch to year-round correct time, but either option is much better than switching twice a year, so if this passes, I’m okay with it.
kcrwfrd_ 2y ago
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
mjevans 2y ago
For northern states it almost doesn't matter, the latitude completely dominates the length of the day. However I am irked at 'noon' being so far from solar noon year round, that's about the only solid reason to go back to 'standard' time so that at least in the median of timezones that time is approximately the same. Southern states? Just let people work 8-4 instead of 9-5. This problem is entirely manufactured by trying to change the ruler rather than the prescribed mark points on it.
- null_name 2y ago
  I'm irked in general by the lack of attention given to solar time. If I ever get into Android hacking, it'll be so I can replace the system statusbar clock with a solar one. I made a CLI utility that prints percent through the solar day/night that people might find useful: https://github.com/riley-martine/sundial https://github.com/riley-martine/sundial
  - atmavatar 2y ago
    I'm somewhat puzzled why so much attention is given to solar time. Why is it so important to have 12:00 be noon and match the time of day the sun is at its peak? I'd much rather use UTC everywhere and eliminate daylight saving time. Because I'm currently UTC-5, it means the average workday would be 13:00 to 22:00, and noon becomes 17:00, but that seems no less arbitrary than 08:00 to 17:00 and 12:00, respectively.
    - madphilosopher 2y ago
      Local noon (when the sun crosses the local meridian) orients us in time and in space. In time, because it marks the day being half-over. In space, because you can use solar alignment to lay out buildings and other structures in a north-south direction, or simply to navigate your locale. It signifies a good time to eat lunch and the proper direction to orient your belly for an afternoon nap in the sun. :)
  - madphilosopher 2y ago
    One of my screens at work is a full-screen UTC clock with seconds. But I added the solar altitude (in degrees) to the bottom of the display, just so I could easily track how close I am to sunrise or sunset. Solar azimuth would be more clock-like and make it obvious when the sun was culminating, but there's lots you can do when you program your own dashboards.
nubinetwork 2y ago
Lousy farmers... /s
- School-Cotton 2y ago
  I’m pretty sure the idea that DST is for farmers is just a legend. Farmers can wake up whenever they need to based on where the sun is; it shouldn’t matter to them at all what the civil time is.
  - kbolino 2y ago
    Farmers don't work in perfect isolation and do have to interact with other economic sectors that keep to clock hours. However, I don't think the misalignment between civil time and solar time has ever been so severe (nor would it be under year-round DST) to pose a serious problem for them.
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
Title is: Trump endorses Rick Scott’s bill to lock the clocks in current Daylight Savings Time
kwertyoowiyop 2y ago
Works for me.
tzs 2y ago
The US tried this in the '70s and people ended up hating it.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
7e 2y ago
In the digital age, we should have 2D timezones where the time is slewed ever so slightly every night at 3 a.m., so that 6 a.m. is always dawn. That is the future.
- pianom4n 2y ago
  In some ways, yes. "Changing clocks" is the easiest it's ever been. We should be looking into changing them more often, not less. Two levels of daylight savings might be better than 1. But on the other hand I think having the same sunrise time every day is actually pretty bad from a coordination perspective. Instead of everybody having a fraction of their year have an unfavorable sunrise, you will lock people into having either a light or dark commute. Everybody will want to start their jobs at the same time making congestion worse. "Support jobs" (e.g. opening the store before "regular" business hours) will be permanently in the dark for their commute.

45 points by ivewonyoung 2y ago

This is literally the only topic where I've ever agreed with the oompa loompa.

I feel like I would like this until winter. Then I'll wish we changed it again, but then in by summer I will change my mind again.

SoftTalker 2y ago
I prefer longer daylight in the evenings. Dark mornings don't bother me.
- mjevans 2y ago
  So you like summer more than winter. (Longer evenings could be had if jobs let out earlier in the day, or even better, gave employees the option to shift their time.)
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    Yes, but even in winter when we move back to standard time it's dark at 4 in the afternoon. I'd rather stay with DST year round. A lot of jobs already offer time shifting where it's feasible. In many jobs it's not.

exabrial 2y ago

I'm the odd person out, I actually don't mind it. Yeah it's inconvenient for about a few days, but I prefer being awake during the sunlight of the winter.

School-Cotton 2y ago
Why not just wake up an hour earlier, then?
- mindcrime 2y ago
  A lot of people don't have the freedom to live their lives by scheduling around when the sun is up. Very large swathes of the population are tied to jobs with strict hours that they are required to be physically present somewhere (or at least online) and don't have a lot of room to flex from that. That limits their ability to take advantage of the longer summertime days by just "get up earlier" or "just leave work early" or what-not. Me, I would love to see DST made permanent for that exact reason: I want the most available daylight after I can leave my job, so I have light for mountain biking, fishing, etc. But that's just me.
  - School-Cotton 2y ago
    Okay, but won’t whatever cultural forces caused your job to be 9-5 (or whatever) under standard time eventually cause it to drift to 10-6 under +1 offset time, and then you haven’t gained anything? At that point will we offset by another hour, and so on ad infinitum? I sometimes feel like arguments advocating for permanent DST think there’s something magical about the numbers “9” and “5” that made the 9-5 workday the standard, (rather than “three hours before midday” and “five hours after midday”), so that if we just change what times 9 and 5 refer to, things will work out…
    - floxy 2y ago
      I'm curious what factors might cause the job start time to drift? Isn't this a coordination problem? You want all of you employees to start at the same time, so the assembly line can keep operating. All the kids start school at the same time, so they can all be instructed at the same time.
    - mindcrime 2y ago
      Okay, but won’t whatever cultural forces caused your job to be 9-5 (or whatever) under standard time eventually cause it to drift to 10-6 under +1 offset time, and then you haven’t gained anything? Sure, probably. But how does that help me today? Of course I'm not literally just talking about myself per-se, but I expect that line of thought is how most people would view this. Who wants to wait a couple of years[1] for schedule drift to allow them to live a normal life? [1]: would it actually be that long? I have no idea, TBH. But from a risk aversion viewpoint, one would probably prefer to already known scenario that optimizes for available sunlight after work.

oytis 2y ago

Well, that one actually makes sense

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

artursapek 2y ago

[flagged]

gkoberger 2y ago

They've flipped back and forth over the years, and the length has been tweaked as recently as 2007. I think that what happens is everyone blames DST, but the real culprit is just that the days are shorter in the winter and there's not much we can do about it.

School-Cotton 2y ago

Changing the numbers so that 1pm, rather than 12pm, now means noon is pointless and arbitrary, but if it makes people happy, whatever. I’d prefer we just switch to year-round correct time, but either option is much better than switching twice a year, so if this passes, I’m okay with it.

kcrwfrd_ 2y ago

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

mjevans 2y ago

For northern states it almost doesn't matter, the latitude completely dominates the length of the day. However I am irked at 'noon' being so far from solar noon year round, that's about the only solid reason to go back to 'standard' time so that at least in the median of timezones that time is approximately the same. Southern states? Just let people work 8-4 instead of 9-5. This problem is entirely manufactured by trying to change the ruler rather than the prescribed mark points on it.

null_name 2y ago
I'm irked in general by the lack of attention given to solar time. If I ever get into Android hacking, it'll be so I can replace the system statusbar clock with a solar one. I made a CLI utility that prints percent through the solar day/night that people might find useful: https://github.com/riley-martine/sundial https://github.com/riley-martine/sundial
- atmavatar 2y ago
  I'm somewhat puzzled why so much attention is given to solar time. Why is it so important to have 12:00 be noon and match the time of day the sun is at its peak? I'd much rather use UTC everywhere and eliminate daylight saving time. Because I'm currently UTC-5, it means the average workday would be 13:00 to 22:00, and noon becomes 17:00, but that seems no less arbitrary than 08:00 to 17:00 and 12:00, respectively.
  - madphilosopher 2y ago
    Local noon (when the sun crosses the local meridian) orients us in time and in space. In time, because it marks the day being half-over. In space, because you can use solar alignment to lay out buildings and other structures in a north-south direction, or simply to navigate your locale. It signifies a good time to eat lunch and the proper direction to orient your belly for an afternoon nap in the sun. :)
- madphilosopher 2y ago
  One of my screens at work is a full-screen UTC clock with seconds. But I added the solar altitude (in degrees) to the bottom of the display, just so I could easily track how close I am to sunrise or sunset. Solar azimuth would be more clock-like and make it obvious when the sun was culminating, but there's lots you can do when you program your own dashboards.

nubinetwork 2y ago

Lousy farmers... /s

School-Cotton 2y ago
I’m pretty sure the idea that DST is for farmers is just a legend. Farmers can wake up whenever they need to based on where the sun is; it shouldn’t matter to them at all what the civil time is.
- kbolino 2y ago
  Farmers don't work in perfect isolation and do have to interact with other economic sectors that keep to clock hours. However, I don't think the misalignment between civil time and solar time has ever been so severe (nor would it be under year-round DST) to pose a serious problem for them.

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

Title is: Trump endorses Rick Scott’s bill to lock the clocks in current Daylight Savings Time

kwertyoowiyop 2y ago

Works for me.

tzs 2y ago

The US tried this in the '70s and people ended up hating it.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

7e 2y ago

In the digital age, we should have 2D timezones where the time is slewed ever so slightly every night at 3 a.m., so that 6 a.m. is always dawn. That is the future.

pianom4n 2y ago
In some ways, yes. "Changing clocks" is the easiest it's ever been. We should be looking into changing them more often, not less. Two levels of daylight savings might be better than 1. But on the other hand I think having the same sunrise time every day is actually pretty bad from a coordination perspective. Instead of everybody having a fraction of their year have an unfavorable sunrise, you will lock people into having either a light or dark commute. Everybody will want to start their jobs at the same time making congestion worse. "Support jobs" (e.g. opening the store before "regular" business hours) will be permanently in the dark for their commute.