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I think my country (USA) would be healthier if a common sense viewpoint was selected and held. Conflicts are always terrible, and the Eurasia / Africa region c
by mjevans 2y ago
I think my country (USA) would be healthier if a common sense viewpoint was selected and held.
Conflicts are always terrible, and the Eurasia / Africa region countries are particularly brutal.
Every citizen of every country has a human right (in a civilized civilization / society) to live a life that does not involve violence. A life where they are not worried about RPGs, bombings, (etc,) or military invasions.
Some sources of conflict involve places which various (different) religions hold as sacred / holy. Those sites should become UN world heritage locations and be managed by the UN in ways that only allow non-military peaceful access for any who want to visit.
With respect to Gaza my personal opinion remains unchanged. Both an innocent civilian people who suffer, and a terrorist government, remain in that region. The civilians should be evacuated. The terrorists who remain after (or whom are caught and found guilty in a trial) should be purged. The country should then be cleaned up, rebuilt, and returned to the innocent people along with a training-wheels UN supported government that brings stability, peace, and prevents a resurgence of hate and terrorism. In a few generations the country can grow more stable and graduate from the guided government structure.
That would be not just a two state solution, but a two states and global peace sites solution.
- devilbunny 2y agoI just don't see a way that a two-state solution works. A three-state solution might be feasible (Gaza and West Bank governed separately), but then you have to deal with internal Israeli politics, and I really don't know enough about them to make even an educated guess about how hard it would be to get that through (I would imagine very, but like I said, I know very little about their politics).
- Workaccount2 2y ago[flagged]
- mjevans 2y agoThat seems wasteful and excessive. Could you elaborate on the upsides of this proposal? They are not obvious from my perspective.
- 20after4 2y agoNot sure if I would call it an upside but I guess if you destroy everything worth fighting for then maybe people stop fighting? If you then execute anyone still willing to persist I guess you can claim victory. This is how you win the internet, just come up with one of the most extreme and cynical responses possible.
- Workaccount2 2y ago[flagged]
- dang 2y agoPlease don't take HN threads further into flamewar hell. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- tdeck 2y ago> Israel basically said "we are going to war and we are not going to worry about who is and isn't a soldier anymore, they all dress the same" When did Israel worry about this, when it comes to Palestinian civilians? This accusation from Israel supporters makes no sense because Israel has never cared about killing Palestinian civilians.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- thot_experiment 2y agothis is grossly misunderstanding the situation in Gaza, a two state solution was never acceptable to Israel, Hamas as it exists today is a result of Netanyahu policy. Israel created the monster to justify their genocide.
- mjevans 2y agoThat might be the case, but that man cannot live forever. I am thinking long term, but am also just a civilian in the US. If there is good reason to have another policy I would like the experts to articulate that logic to us.
- HappyPanacea 2y ago> a two state solution was never acceptable to Israel Wrong, they accepted the 1947 partition plan and agreed to the Oslo accords
- cbzbc 2y agoThe Oslo accords were intended - in the words of Rabin - to give the Palestinians 'less than a state', and arguably the division of the West Bank into Areas A, B and C have allowed for the expansion of settlements in the latter. Whether the 1947 partition was accepted as a final state depends on who you ask, it's fairly clear that prominent figures viewed it as a stop along the way to a more comprehensive settlement. Take Ben Gurion ("After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine.") or Chaim Weizmann ("partition might be only a temporary arrangement for the next twenty to twenty-five years"). Menachem Begin's Herut continued to use the slogan 'Both banks of the Jordan River", and this language is reflected in Likud's founding charter.
- sfx77 2y agoNot just 1947, Jews have been been in the area continuously and have bought land many times. 27 million dunams, which is equivalent to about 7-8 million acres if I'm not wrong, but were attacked since Jews are somehow an exception for owning land. During the same time period Israel was created, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and I believe 2-3 other Arab Muslim countries were created, yet those countries were not attacked.
- mef51 2y ago"The civilians should be evacuated." They don't want to leave and Israel uses these "evacuations" to make sure Palestinians never return, as they did in 1948, 1967, etc[1][2]. This is whitewashing genocide and is an extremely violent view, packaged in reasonable sounding words. Israel has a long documented history of using terrorism to build its state. If you truly oppose terrorism I recommend starting with the books I've sourced. [1] The ethnic cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappé [2] The Hundred Years' War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonialism and Resistance, 1917–2017 by Rashid Kahlidi
- mjevans 2y agoIt should be the UN, and with the express intent outlined in my post above. To return them back to their country once the criminals have been removed.
- yoda97 2y agoA two state solution is never possible when one state keeps expanding with impunity, and every time the second state resists it is called a terrorist state. My country resisted colonization in the mid 20th century and the resistance efforts were called terrorism by everyone, nobody calls them terrorists now.
- HappyPanacea 2y agoWhat country are you from? It is entirely possible they are still terrorists you just decided as society to ignore it.
- yoda97 2y agoThe ICC has never issued any arrest warrants for our elected/appointed government officials if that's what you are asking.
- HappyPanacea 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- yoda97 2y agoIt's best we stop here, this conversation will go nowhere.
- HappyPanacea 2y agoICC don't have retroactive jurisdiction from quick google so your point still doesn't make sense.
- skyyler 2y agoOne of the most difficult things you can do in a discussion like this. But also, one of the most important.
- tmnvix 2y agoAnd I assume after this evacuation, purging, and installment of a new government Israel will magically change its ways? You need to address both sides to find a solution.