4 ms·

Carnegie Mellon student with one semester left learns his visa was revoked

91 points by perihelions 2y ago

belter 2y ago
There is no point in the cruelty because the cruelty is the point.
- techpineapple 2y ago
  I think they go after these high profile cases because it sends the message they’re tough on immigration, even if they’re not. I’m not a betting man, but I would be surprised if a post-hoc analysis of the Trump administration didn’t show an in test in illegal immigration’s during his tenure.
shadowgovt 2y ago
Elections have consequences. Although it's decidedly unfair, it would seem, when some of those consequences fall on those who don't even get a vote.
- uoaei 2y ago
  The spectrum of political opinion isn't 1D. The causal links between political opinion and someone's propensity to vote are also far from straightforward. The feedback loops between media and the evolution of people's political opinions might be stronger than any principles people imagine themselves having. Altogether, Bernie was the compromise candidate, except that companies with "news" in the name but who emphatically argue in the courts that they are not news and only idiots would believe that they are, are the ones who really won this election, at the expense of nearly everyone else.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - ajross 2y ago
    > The spectrum of political opinion isn't 1D Immigration policy was the single largest policy issue of the Trump campaign. No, you can't play this game. No one is surprised that this is the policy. Everyone heard what he said about immigrants. What I think you're trying to say is that some people fooled themselves that this was all a bit[1], and that he wouldn't actually do the things he was very clearly and very loudly saying he would do. But he would, and he did, and now he has. And that's on you, not some fiction you told yourself about the candidate. [1] Not the only such area. See the embarassing mess in Bill Ackman's twitter output over the past week.
    - Aloisius 2y ago
      People on temporary student visas aren't immigrants and have nothing to do with immigration. What's next? Mass deportation of tourists?
      - uoaei 2y ago
        Maybe you would need to explicate your definition of "immigrant" before continuing. All visas are "temporary" so that is a meaningless qualification in this context.
        Aloisius 2y ago
        > immigrant (noun) - a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country. The US has two classes of visas: immigrant and nonimmigrant visas. Student visas are the latter along with things like tourist visas. People here simply to go to school on student visas are not immigrants.
        shadowgovt 2y ago
        It's worth noting that this is another example of the "Trump would never do that" to "Okay, first of all, I don't agree with your definition of 'concentration camp'" pipeline.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >Altogether, Bernie was the compromise candidate Maybe if your politics are far left, but nationwide polling showed that he was consistently trailing Clinton. Even diehard Bernie supporters would admit he was left of Clinton, and considering that there are Republican candidates as well, it's laughable to claim he was a "compromise" candidate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for...
    - uoaei 2y ago
      Please re-read my comments about the feedback loop between media and voting behavior. There is overwhelming statistical evidence that the depiction of both candidates in mainstream news channels favored Clinton and denigrated Sanders. Making the obvious conclusion, of course polls would reflect this disparity.
      - gruez 2y ago
        >There is overwhelming statistical evidence that the depiction of both candidates in mainstream news channels favored Clinton and denigrated Sanders. So you take national poll numbers, apply a handwavy fudge factor for "mainstream news channels favored Clinton and denigrated Sanders", and conclude that Sanders is the "compromise candidate"? Doesn't seem very rigorous. It also doesn't address the fact that Sanders was the left-most candidate, and there are republicans to the right of him and Clinton. On a spectrum of Sanders, Clinton, and whatever other Republicans there are, there's no plausible case to be made that Sanders is somehow the "compromise" (median?) candidate. Finally, the" mainstream news" denigrated Trump as well, arguably more. Does that make him the "compromise candidate" even more?
        uoaei 2y ago
        Certainly not, and you should be ashamed to shove such falsities in my mouth. The studies I saw focused on the negative sentiments toward Clinton: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/why-does-sanders-do-better-clinton-against-trump-n586476 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/why-does-sand... and section 3 of https://sbp-brims.org/2016/proceedings/PO_139.pdf https://sbp-brims.org/2016/proceedings/PO_139.pdf Would you like to revise your comments now that you understand your assumptions are misplaced? I suggest you do a lot more reading into the sentiments depicted by mainstream news sources on each candidate before replying.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- anonfordays 2y ago
  [flagged]
- palmotea 2y ago
  > Elections have consequences. Although it's decidedly unfair, it would seem, when some of those consequences fall on those who don't even get a vote. That sentiment sounds nice, but it's kinda messed up: it implies non-citizens should have more rights and privileges than citizens (i.e. be insulated from the consequences of elections). It's like, if someone loans you their car, insisting they shouldn't be able to ask for it back because you didn't have say in the decision. Ultimately, if you're actually for democracy, you have to be fine with policy changing in whatever way the electorate decides it should change.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    I think it’s fair to believe that democracy has failure modes where we say, “Nope, this outcome didn’t work.” For example, if fellow citizens start getting rounded up in camps or deported, regardless of due process, what the electorate wants and the votes communicate are no longer relevant. I think we’re almost at that point, but not quite yet (depends on whether checks and balances on illegal actions of the executive branch are successful). “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” —- attributed to Ben Franklin (The US is a federal republic, not a democracy)
    - palmotea 2y ago
      > I think it’s fair to believe that democracy has failure modes where we say, “Nope, this outcome didn’t work.” For example, if fellow citizens start getting rounded up in camps or deported, regardless of due process, what the electorate wants and the votes communicate are no longer relevant. That's a tricky line, because it's on the path to: "You have the 'freedom' to vote for whoever you like, just as long as they're a Communist who will loyally implement Communist policies." Personally, I don't think many people in the US are actually committed democrats. They're mostly partisans committed to their party/ideology, and there's a lot of maneuvering to confuse people that their party's policy is set in stone ("constitutional/constitutionally required") and entrench it against democratic action.
      - 2y ago
strathmeyer 2y ago
[flagged]
jeffrallen 2y ago
I hope Switzerland offers him a visa and a diploma from EPFL. We need smart people.
- jgyter 2y ago
  [flagged]
- trilbyglens 2y ago
  Wouldn't know it from how restrictive your immigration laws are
searealist 2y ago
[flagged]
- marifjeren 2y ago
  > The case was dismissed and expunged Not the same thing as a conviction
  - searealist 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - marifjeren 2y ago
      ctrl+f "dismissed" in the article
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      The article says that. > Murphy believes this may be happening from an expunged DUI case involving Ma in 2023. "That [DUI] didn't result in the finding of guilt. I understand the records were expunged," Murphy said. "The case was dismissed and expunged after he went through the process."
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - uoaei 2y ago
      That exact phrase is present in the article. Just being realist about it.
  - searealist 2y ago
    Charges are dismissed all the time when there is guilt. It is not the same thing as innocent. There is a close to 100% chance he admitted guilt.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      You initially stated (in a now-flagged comment) the charges weren't dismissed, even contesting a word-for-word direct quote from the article. As a result, I'm not certain we should trust your "100% chance" assertions. Courts largely don't find you "innocent" outside of post-conviction exonerations. Just "not guilty".
Freak_NL 2y ago
“Trump is back in town; we’re doing things the way we should have always been doing them.” Nothing odd here. It seems to be the new normal: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/11/australian-with-us-working-visa-detained-insulted-deported https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/11/australian-w...
hnburnsy 2y ago
[flagged]
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  That applies to a criminal conviction for DUI. Which this person does not have, as the case was dismissed and expunged.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >as the case was dismissed and expunged. Apparently that was only because he completed a (court mandated?) rehab program? I guess that's technically not a conviction, but not the same as innocent, or even a "case dropped" (in the sense most people would expect). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43654102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43654102
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      If true - that poster cites no source and previously couldn't read this article accurately - he, as stated, has no conviction on his record.
      - gruez 2y ago
        >that poster cites no source Trivial to reverse search: https://triblive.com/news/politics-election/i-only-have-a-semester-left-carnegie-mellon-student-among-those-whose-visas-were-terminated/ https://triblive.com/news/politics-election/i-only-have-a-se...
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        Also trivial to find: https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-f-chapter-2 https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-f-chapter... > If the accused is directed to attend a pre-trial diversion or intervention program, where no admission or finding of guilt is required, the order may not count as a conviction for immigration purposes.
josefritzishere 2y ago
Aside from the moral outrage, these government Visa actions are radically anti-capitalist. He paid for a student visa, he paid for classes, he pays for housing, he's paying for services and bam... he cannot collect the service he paid for. This undermines this entire revenue line for America; selling high quality university level education.
- derelicta 2y ago
  What does anti capitalist mean in this situation? I'd say it's mostly anti Asian than "anti-capitalist".
bananapub 2y ago
I do hope that Americans letting Trump have another go at being the worst president in history means I'll never have to hear Americans ever whine about free speech in europe, ever again.
cosmotic 2y ago
Finish online?
- shadowgovt 2y ago
  Carnegie Mellon isn't really set up for correspondence courses, especially in the electrical and computer engineering program (which is quite hands-on). But I'd hope the university would figure out a way to be flexible on this topic. The students (and alumni) are watching; it's a good opportunity for the uni leadership to step up and get creative with a novel challenge.

91 points by perihelions 2y ago

belter 2y ago

There is no point in the cruelty because the cruelty is the point.

techpineapple 2y ago
I think they go after these high profile cases because it sends the message they’re tough on immigration, even if they’re not. I’m not a betting man, but I would be surprised if a post-hoc analysis of the Trump administration didn’t show an in test in illegal immigration’s during his tenure.

shadowgovt 2y ago

Elections have consequences. Although it's decidedly unfair, it would seem, when some of those consequences fall on those who don't even get a vote.

uoaei 2y ago
The spectrum of political opinion isn't 1D. The causal links between political opinion and someone's propensity to vote are also far from straightforward. The feedback loops between media and the evolution of people's political opinions might be stronger than any principles people imagine themselves having. Altogether, Bernie was the compromise candidate, except that companies with "news" in the name but who emphatically argue in the courts that they are not news and only idiots would believe that they are, are the ones who really won this election, at the expense of nearly everyone else.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ajross 2y ago
  > The spectrum of political opinion isn't 1D Immigration policy was the single largest policy issue of the Trump campaign. No, you can't play this game. No one is surprised that this is the policy. Everyone heard what he said about immigrants. What I think you're trying to say is that some people fooled themselves that this was all a bit[1], and that he wouldn't actually do the things he was very clearly and very loudly saying he would do. But he would, and he did, and now he has. And that's on you, not some fiction you told yourself about the candidate. [1] Not the only such area. See the embarassing mess in Bill Ackman's twitter output over the past week.
  - Aloisius 2y ago
    People on temporary student visas aren't immigrants and have nothing to do with immigration. What's next? Mass deportation of tourists?
    - uoaei 2y ago
      Maybe you would need to explicate your definition of "immigrant" before continuing. All visas are "temporary" so that is a meaningless qualification in this context.
      - Aloisius 2y ago
        > immigrant (noun) - a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country. The US has two classes of visas: immigrant and nonimmigrant visas. Student visas are the latter along with things like tourist visas. People here simply to go to school on student visas are not immigrants.
        shadowgovt 2y ago
        It's worth noting that this is another example of the "Trump would never do that" to "Okay, first of all, I don't agree with your definition of 'concentration camp'" pipeline.
- gruez 2y ago
  >Altogether, Bernie was the compromise candidate Maybe if your politics are far left, but nationwide polling showed that he was consistently trailing Clinton. Even diehard Bernie supporters would admit he was left of Clinton, and considering that there are Republican candidates as well, it's laughable to claim he was a "compromise" candidate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for...
  - uoaei 2y ago
    Please re-read my comments about the feedback loop between media and voting behavior. There is overwhelming statistical evidence that the depiction of both candidates in mainstream news channels favored Clinton and denigrated Sanders. Making the obvious conclusion, of course polls would reflect this disparity.
    - gruez 2y ago
      >There is overwhelming statistical evidence that the depiction of both candidates in mainstream news channels favored Clinton and denigrated Sanders. So you take national poll numbers, apply a handwavy fudge factor for "mainstream news channels favored Clinton and denigrated Sanders", and conclude that Sanders is the "compromise candidate"? Doesn't seem very rigorous. It also doesn't address the fact that Sanders was the left-most candidate, and there are republicans to the right of him and Clinton. On a spectrum of Sanders, Clinton, and whatever other Republicans there are, there's no plausible case to be made that Sanders is somehow the "compromise" (median?) candidate. Finally, the" mainstream news" denigrated Trump as well, arguably more. Does that make him the "compromise candidate" even more?
      - uoaei 2y ago
        Certainly not, and you should be ashamed to shove such falsities in my mouth. The studies I saw focused on the negative sentiments toward Clinton: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/why-does-sanders-do-better-clinton-against-trump-n586476 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/why-does-sand... and section 3 of https://sbp-brims.org/2016/proceedings/PO_139.pdf https://sbp-brims.org/2016/proceedings/PO_139.pdf Would you like to revise your comments now that you understand your assumptions are misplaced? I suggest you do a lot more reading into the sentiments depicted by mainstream news sources on each candidate before replying.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
anonfordays 2y ago
[flagged]
palmotea 2y ago
> Elections have consequences. Although it's decidedly unfair, it would seem, when some of those consequences fall on those who don't even get a vote. That sentiment sounds nice, but it's kinda messed up: it implies non-citizens should have more rights and privileges than citizens (i.e. be insulated from the consequences of elections). It's like, if someone loans you their car, insisting they shouldn't be able to ask for it back because you didn't have say in the decision. Ultimately, if you're actually for democracy, you have to be fine with policy changing in whatever way the electorate decides it should change.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  I think it’s fair to believe that democracy has failure modes where we say, “Nope, this outcome didn’t work.” For example, if fellow citizens start getting rounded up in camps or deported, regardless of due process, what the electorate wants and the votes communicate are no longer relevant. I think we’re almost at that point, but not quite yet (depends on whether checks and balances on illegal actions of the executive branch are successful). “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” —- attributed to Ben Franklin (The US is a federal republic, not a democracy)
  - palmotea 2y ago
    > I think it’s fair to believe that democracy has failure modes where we say, “Nope, this outcome didn’t work.” For example, if fellow citizens start getting rounded up in camps or deported, regardless of due process, what the electorate wants and the votes communicate are no longer relevant. That's a tricky line, because it's on the path to: "You have the 'freedom' to vote for whoever you like, just as long as they're a Communist who will loyally implement Communist policies." Personally, I don't think many people in the US are actually committed democrats. They're mostly partisans committed to their party/ideology, and there's a lot of maneuvering to confuse people that their party's policy is set in stone ("constitutional/constitutionally required") and entrench it against democratic action.
    - 2y ago

strathmeyer 2y ago

[flagged]

jeffrallen 2y ago

I hope Switzerland offers him a visa and a diploma from EPFL. We need smart people.

jgyter 2y ago
[flagged]
trilbyglens 2y ago
Wouldn't know it from how restrictive your immigration laws are

searealist 2y ago

[flagged]

marifjeren 2y ago
> The case was dismissed and expunged Not the same thing as a conviction
- searealist 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - marifjeren 2y ago
    ctrl+f "dismissed" in the article
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    The article says that. > Murphy believes this may be happening from an expunged DUI case involving Ma in 2023. "That [DUI] didn't result in the finding of guilt. I understand the records were expunged," Murphy said. "The case was dismissed and expunged after he went through the process."
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - uoaei 2y ago
    That exact phrase is present in the article. Just being realist about it.
- searealist 2y ago
  Charges are dismissed all the time when there is guilt. It is not the same thing as innocent. There is a close to 100% chance he admitted guilt.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    You initially stated (in a now-flagged comment) the charges weren't dismissed, even contesting a word-for-word direct quote from the article. As a result, I'm not certain we should trust your "100% chance" assertions. Courts largely don't find you "innocent" outside of post-conviction exonerations. Just "not guilty".

Freak_NL 2y ago

“Trump is back in town; we’re doing things the way we should have always been doing them.” Nothing odd here. It seems to be the new normal: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/11/australian-with-us-working-visa-detained-insulted-deported https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/11/australian-w...

hnburnsy 2y ago

[flagged]

ceejayoz 2y ago
That applies to a criminal conviction for DUI. Which this person does not have, as the case was dismissed and expunged.
- gruez 2y ago
  >as the case was dismissed and expunged. Apparently that was only because he completed a (court mandated?) rehab program? I guess that's technically not a conviction, but not the same as innocent, or even a "case dropped" (in the sense most people would expect). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43654102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43654102
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    If true - that poster cites no source and previously couldn't read this article accurately - he, as stated, has no conviction on his record.
    - gruez 2y ago
      >that poster cites no source Trivial to reverse search: https://triblive.com/news/politics-election/i-only-have-a-semester-left-carnegie-mellon-student-among-those-whose-visas-were-terminated/ https://triblive.com/news/politics-election/i-only-have-a-se...
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        Also trivial to find: https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-f-chapter-2 https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-f-chapter... > If the accused is directed to attend a pre-trial diversion or intervention program, where no admission or finding of guilt is required, the order may not count as a conviction for immigration purposes.

josefritzishere 2y ago

Aside from the moral outrage, these government Visa actions are radically anti-capitalist. He paid for a student visa, he paid for classes, he pays for housing, he's paying for services and bam... he cannot collect the service he paid for. This undermines this entire revenue line for America; selling high quality university level education.

derelicta 2y ago
What does anti capitalist mean in this situation? I'd say it's mostly anti Asian than "anti-capitalist".

bananapub 2y ago

I do hope that Americans letting Trump have another go at being the worst president in history means I'll never have to hear Americans ever whine about free speech in europe, ever again.

cosmotic 2y ago

Finish online?

shadowgovt 2y ago
Carnegie Mellon isn't really set up for correspondence courses, especially in the electrical and computer engineering program (which is quite hands-on). But I'd hope the university would figure out a way to be flexible on this topic. The students (and alumni) are watching; it's a good opportunity for the uni leadership to step up and get creative with a novel challenge.