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Would you go and dig rocks out of a mountain and refine them into pure ore just because? We are social animals. Art is storytelling. It has many utilities, but

Would you go and dig rocks out of a mountain and refine them into pure ore just because? We are social animals. Art is storytelling. It has many utilities, but it is primarily education and entertainment. A modern version of the cave painting is to distill complex and uncomfortable truths about the world for those who wish to thrive in a society built on lies. If you want to go dig shiny rocks from the mountain at great personal risk to your mental and physical health for no benefit to society you are probably sick. If it heals you, that's its utility. But if you find you're good at it and you want to use this skill for its intended purpose, you aught to be getting paid for it. *Your mileage may vary. Just my take.

jjulius 1y ago
As someone who is into producing visual and musical art for no monetary benefit, and happens to do a lot of backpacking and is very into the geology of the areas I backpack in, yes. I would absolutely find great value in something akin to trekking into remote, hard to reach areas just to see some rocks shaped by ancient glaciers. If that all makes me "sick", then fuck yeah, proud to be mentally ill. It's truly sad that doing something for pleasure, education, love, fascination and reverence (like being fascinated about how our planet shaped itself, or learning to play the guitar because you love music and think it's fun) is viewed as "mad" or "sick" if there isn't some kind of monetary return. YMMV indeed, but money is not everything. What's sick, in my eyes, is only being able to view things through the lens of monetary value.
- weard_beard 1y ago
  Money is just a proxy for the value your skill brings to society. I appreciate your perspective, but I hope you appreciate that mine is just aligned with a more social view of the world.
  - jjulius 1y ago
    Social impacts don't need to be tied to money. Getting together with your friends and playing/creating music together, with/for yourselves, and for no financial gain is of tremendous value, for instance.
    - the_af 1y ago
      I'm similarly appalled by weard_beard's replies as you are. I find lots of joy in life without money entering directly into the equation (other than "without money I wouldn't be able to live"). When I start doing something I enjoy -- a hobby, an activity, a craft -- the first thought into my mind is definitely NOT "how can I monetize this?".
  - the_af 1y ago
    > Money is just a proxy for the value your skill brings to society. It can be, but it's not the only one. > mine is just aligned with a more social view of the world I wouldn't say this, no. It's just a money-oriented worldview, not a more social one.
    - weard_beard 1y ago
      What you're saying about art is true of all labor and I think its villainous to single out the arts as being more or less deserving compensation.
      - the_af 1y ago
        Wow, "villanous"! Hyperbolic much? In any case, I didn't say anything about art in my comment immediately above. I was disagreeing with your worldview. I also didn't say anything about arts being less deserving of compensation. Could you try addressing what other people actually say?

jjulius 1y ago

As someone who is into producing visual and musical art for no monetary benefit, and happens to do a lot of backpacking and is very into the geology of the areas I backpack in, yes. I would absolutely find great value in something akin to trekking into remote, hard to reach areas just to see some rocks shaped by ancient glaciers. If that all makes me "sick", then fuck yeah, proud to be mentally ill. It's truly sad that doing something for pleasure, education, love, fascination and reverence (like being fascinated about how our planet shaped itself, or learning to play the guitar because you love music and think it's fun) is viewed as "mad" or "sick" if there isn't some kind of monetary return. YMMV indeed, but money is not everything. What's sick, in my eyes, is only being able to view things through the lens of monetary value.

weard_beard 1y ago
Money is just a proxy for the value your skill brings to society. I appreciate your perspective, but I hope you appreciate that mine is just aligned with a more social view of the world.
- jjulius 1y ago
  Social impacts don't need to be tied to money. Getting together with your friends and playing/creating music together, with/for yourselves, and for no financial gain is of tremendous value, for instance.
  - the_af 1y ago
    I'm similarly appalled by weard_beard's replies as you are. I find lots of joy in life without money entering directly into the equation (other than "without money I wouldn't be able to live"). When I start doing something I enjoy -- a hobby, an activity, a craft -- the first thought into my mind is definitely NOT "how can I monetize this?".
- the_af 1y ago
  > Money is just a proxy for the value your skill brings to society. It can be, but it's not the only one. > mine is just aligned with a more social view of the world I wouldn't say this, no. It's just a money-oriented worldview, not a more social one.
  - weard_beard 1y ago
    What you're saying about art is true of all labor and I think its villainous to single out the arts as being more or less deserving compensation.
    - the_af 1y ago
      Wow, "villanous"! Hyperbolic much? In any case, I didn't say anything about art in my comment immediately above. I was disagreeing with your worldview. I also didn't say anything about arts being less deserving of compensation. Could you try addressing what other people actually say?