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When I posted here about how lead pipes during the Roman Empire was bad for the people I was met with a torrent of downvotes right here on Hackernews saying it

When I posted here about how lead pipes during the Roman Empire was bad for the people I was met with a torrent of downvotes right here on Hackernews saying it wasn’t that bad. I’m not optimistic about the future.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Gigachad 2y ago
I feel the same about leaded solder for hobby electronics.
- alnwlsn 2y ago
  At least leaded soldering wire is mostly contained in a large chunk, but I really don't like leaded solder paste. Which is like leaded peanut butter, and easily spread around. All the new parts are designed based on a lead free process anyways, so you might as well get used to working with lead-free solder to begin with.
  - djmips 2y ago
    Unless you work on vintage gear...
apercu 2y ago
I'm sure that contributed to some of the insanity, but they also cooked down wine in lead pots (sapa or defrutum) which caused lead to leach and act as a sweetener. I think they also used this in cooking but this is all from memory so trust but verify!
- foobarian 2y ago
  IIRC they also used lead acetate as a sweetener. It boggles my mind that using enough of that to noticeably impact the flavor of food did not instantly kill people. Meanwhile here we are talking about micrograms!
philjohn 2y ago
To be fair lead pipes aren't good, but the other uses in the Roman Empire were probably the cause of far more of the issues. Especially with hard water (of which the water in Rome is VERY hard[1] today, and if similar sources are used, it stands to reason it was very hard way back when) it forms a scale that drastically reduces the amount that leeches into the water. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-of-water-hardness-of-Italian-tap-water-Classification-is-presented-in-the-legend_fig6_231520556 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-of-water-hardness-of...
- albedoa 2y ago
  That is exactly what people told him at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43231697 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43231697 He is being dishonest.
  - throwanem 2y ago
    If you must lie, be less bad at it. From the paper [1] she read and you didn't: > It is now universally accepted that utilization of lead for domestic purposes and water distribution presents a major health hazard. The ancient Roman world was unaware of these risks. How far the gigantic network of lead pipes used in ancient Rome compromised public health in the city is unknown...[Lead isotopes in sediments from the harbor of Imperial Rome] demonstrate that the lead pipes of the water distribution system increased [lead] contents in drinking water of the capital city by up to two orders of magnitude over the natural background. The [lead] isotope record shows that the discontinuities in the pollution of the Tiber by lead are intimately entwined with the major issues affecting Late Antique Rome and its water distribution system. [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1400097111 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1400097111
    - albedoa 2y ago
      ...what? Did you mean to respond to me? I'm the one exposing the lie. There's a weird trend on here of karma chasers playing "gotcha" by posting rebuttals to things that literally nobody is claiming and hoping that we don't notice. It's fucking pathetic man. What would it take for you to reevaluate your life.
mystraline 2y ago
The lead pipes was probably a miniscule amount of overall lead. The ancient romans added lead acetate Pb(CH3COO)2 to their foods and wine. I can't understate just how much 'lead sugar' was being consumed. By the way, in my later years, I did make a voluntary choice to taste it, and then rinse my mouth out. And yes, it was the closest we have to table sugar Ive ever tasted. Before anyone naysays me, I did this knowing full well the risks. Also fast forward 1700 years,and we see the same reaction. In the 1950s USA, you could buy lead-rimmed coffee cups. The interaction between the coffee, the lead, and your mouth created the sensation of sweetness, likely also lead acetate.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Gigachad 2y ago

I feel the same about leaded solder for hobby electronics.

alnwlsn 2y ago
At least leaded soldering wire is mostly contained in a large chunk, but I really don't like leaded solder paste. Which is like leaded peanut butter, and easily spread around. All the new parts are designed based on a lead free process anyways, so you might as well get used to working with lead-free solder to begin with.
- djmips 2y ago
  Unless you work on vintage gear...

apercu 2y ago

I'm sure that contributed to some of the insanity, but they also cooked down wine in lead pots (sapa or defrutum) which caused lead to leach and act as a sweetener. I think they also used this in cooking but this is all from memory so trust but verify!

foobarian 2y ago
IIRC they also used lead acetate as a sweetener. It boggles my mind that using enough of that to noticeably impact the flavor of food did not instantly kill people. Meanwhile here we are talking about micrograms!

philjohn 2y ago

To be fair lead pipes aren't good, but the other uses in the Roman Empire were probably the cause of far more of the issues. Especially with hard water (of which the water in Rome is VERY hard[1] today, and if similar sources are used, it stands to reason it was very hard way back when) it forms a scale that drastically reduces the amount that leeches into the water. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-of-water-hardness-of-Italian-tap-water-Classification-is-presented-in-the-legend_fig6_231520556 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-of-water-hardness-of...

albedoa 2y ago
That is exactly what people told him at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43231697 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43231697 He is being dishonest.
- throwanem 2y ago
  If you must lie, be less bad at it. From the paper [1] she read and you didn't: > It is now universally accepted that utilization of lead for domestic purposes and water distribution presents a major health hazard. The ancient Roman world was unaware of these risks. How far the gigantic network of lead pipes used in ancient Rome compromised public health in the city is unknown...[Lead isotopes in sediments from the harbor of Imperial Rome] demonstrate that the lead pipes of the water distribution system increased [lead] contents in drinking water of the capital city by up to two orders of magnitude over the natural background. The [lead] isotope record shows that the discontinuities in the pollution of the Tiber by lead are intimately entwined with the major issues affecting Late Antique Rome and its water distribution system. [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1400097111 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1400097111
  - albedoa 2y ago
    ...what? Did you mean to respond to me? I'm the one exposing the lie. There's a weird trend on here of karma chasers playing "gotcha" by posting rebuttals to things that literally nobody is claiming and hoping that we don't notice. It's fucking pathetic man. What would it take for you to reevaluate your life.

mystraline 2y ago

The lead pipes was probably a miniscule amount of overall lead. The ancient romans added lead acetate Pb(CH3COO)2 to their foods and wine. I can't understate just how much 'lead sugar' was being consumed. By the way, in my later years, I did make a voluntary choice to taste it, and then rinse my mouth out. And yes, it was the closest we have to table sugar Ive ever tasted. Before anyone naysays me, I did this knowing full well the risks. Also fast forward 1700 years,and we see the same reaction. In the 1950s USA, you could buy lead-rimmed coffee cups. The interaction between the coffee, the lead, and your mouth created the sensation of sweetness, likely also lead acetate.