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> We've handed way too much control over to the web developers. We lost this battle by 1999. And again when we started to deliver full web applications instead

> We've handed way too much control over to the web developers. We lost this battle by 1999. And again when we started to deliver full web applications instead of documents. I wish we had a second protocol that was more document and information focused. Something that gave zero control over programming or layout to providers. I just want to exchange information P2P in a dense swarm approximating modern social media. I want to use my own client configured how I like it to choose what to ingest and how to flag it and present it.

Incipient 2y ago
>Something that gave zero control over programming or layout to providers. Without layout or programming (functionality)...is that not just json?? And if you consider "structure" to be "layout"...then...a txt file? Unf I don't see the point here. You're basically just describing an api endpoint and a custom client.
- echelon 2y ago
  I'm describing email, RSS, bittorrent, IRC, etc. Protocols.
  - jrvieira 2y ago
    we do have such protocols. gopher and more recently gemini are the most popular competing standards
    - echelon 2y ago
      Who are we kidding. With those as our choices, it's no wonder most people just use the face book. Hyper scale businesses captured most of the internet's value and humans and turned tech into a series of walled gardens for eyeball attention doom scroll maximization. Retweeting the for you page is what some committee of product managers decided was best for us all. Who are we to question the architectures of power? It almost sounds like a perverse weird utopia to imagine a world where we controlled all of the information flows ourselves. I can't think why we should have all the power.
      - jrvieira 2y ago
        the internet has become more accessible both to consumers and people trying to sell a product. it has become crowded in "the market" you refer to. but all the good things all still there, and are doing much better than they were. i still use all of those protocols and a bunch of newer ones.
joquarky 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_(protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_(protocol)
- ryandrake 2y ago
  I remember when the web came out, I said "This is just a prettier gopher." Seeing the end result of 30 years of web development, I kind of wish it stayed just a prettier gopher.

Incipient 2y ago

>Something that gave zero control over programming or layout to providers. Without layout or programming (functionality)...is that not just json?? And if you consider "structure" to be "layout"...then...a txt file? Unf I don't see the point here. You're basically just describing an api endpoint and a custom client.

echelon 2y ago
I'm describing email, RSS, bittorrent, IRC, etc. Protocols.
- jrvieira 2y ago
  we do have such protocols. gopher and more recently gemini are the most popular competing standards
  - echelon 2y ago
    Who are we kidding. With those as our choices, it's no wonder most people just use the face book. Hyper scale businesses captured most of the internet's value and humans and turned tech into a series of walled gardens for eyeball attention doom scroll maximization. Retweeting the for you page is what some committee of product managers decided was best for us all. Who are we to question the architectures of power? It almost sounds like a perverse weird utopia to imagine a world where we controlled all of the information flows ourselves. I can't think why we should have all the power.
    - jrvieira 2y ago
      the internet has become more accessible both to consumers and people trying to sell a product. it has become crowded in "the market" you refer to. but all the good things all still there, and are doing much better than they were. i still use all of those protocols and a bunch of newer ones.

joquarky 2y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_(protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_(protocol)

ryandrake 2y ago
I remember when the web came out, I said "This is just a prettier gopher." Seeing the end result of 30 years of web development, I kind of wish it stayed just a prettier gopher.