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This isn't "protect[ing] its borders." Israel sealed off Gaza, which isn't even Israeli territory. Israel won't have security as long as it continues to oppres

This isn't "protect[ing] its borders." Israel sealed off Gaza, which isn't even Israeli territory. Israel won't have security as long as it continues to oppress the Palestinians. I have no sympathy for their arguments about their own security as long as they continue to steal Palestinian land and kill tens of thousands of Palestinians.

raxxorraxor 2y ago
Isreal didn't steal land in Gaze, they withdrew. Again, if Gaza didn't attack Israel, it would look a lot different today. That makes the genocide accusation even more off base. Perhaps you noticed that you repositioned the argument. Also, the same can be said about Israelis. If Palestine stopped firing rockets at them, there would be less incidents. Although in that case it would probably be true. If you want to have factual indications for the ambitions for war or genocide, look at the school curriculum in both countries.
- DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
  Israel is stealing more and more Palestinian land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and has no intention of ever giving up or withdrawing from those territories. Its plan is to either confine the Palestinians into little South-Africa-style Bantustans (sorry, "Emirates," to use the preferred phrase in Israel), or to expel them altogether. Gaza itself has been sealed off and bombed and invaded over and over again. It's a giant ghetto. You don't need to look at the school curricula. Just look at what Israelis at all levels are saying, from the soldiers on the ground up all the way up to the Prime Minister and President. The amount of genocidal rhetoric is shocking, especially coming from a country that makes the Holocaust such a central part of its raison d'être.
  - raxxorraxor 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
      > You cannot commit genocide through rhetoric Maybe you've missed this, but Israel has killed tens of thousands of Palestinians and has laid utter waste to Gaza. But genocide also requires intent, and Israelis have loudly broadcast that intent to the world. > They are taught to hate Jews from the start. No, they aren't. They learn to hate Israelis through bitter experience. If you live under a foreign military occupation, with constant humiliation by foreign soldiers on your territory, with foreign settlers stealing more and more of your land, and with that foreign military killing tens of thousands of your countrymen, nobody has to teach you to hate that foreign country. It's actually amazing that UNRWA has managed to set up such a politically neutral education system under these circumstances. Palestinians don't hate Jews. If you're Jewish, you can go to the West Bank. People will be friendly to you if you're sympathetic to their situation. What they don't like is Israel, the country that controls their lives and oppresses them day in and day out.
      - raxxorraxor 2y ago
        [flagged]
        DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
        A country that holds millions of people under permanent military occupation is the aggressor. > you just have to read it up as it is written down. I'm trying to parse this. The grammar is English, but it appears to have no meaning
        raxxorraxor 2y ago
        So basically you believe the attacks on Israel and that they still hold hostages is justified?
        DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
        So basically you believe that Israel's decades-long military rule over millions of Palestinians is justified?

raxxorraxor 2y ago

Isreal didn't steal land in Gaze, they withdrew. Again, if Gaza didn't attack Israel, it would look a lot different today. That makes the genocide accusation even more off base. Perhaps you noticed that you repositioned the argument. Also, the same can be said about Israelis. If Palestine stopped firing rockets at them, there would be less incidents. Although in that case it would probably be true. If you want to have factual indications for the ambitions for war or genocide, look at the school curriculum in both countries.

DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
Israel is stealing more and more Palestinian land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and has no intention of ever giving up or withdrawing from those territories. Its plan is to either confine the Palestinians into little South-Africa-style Bantustans (sorry, "Emirates," to use the preferred phrase in Israel), or to expel them altogether. Gaza itself has been sealed off and bombed and invaded over and over again. It's a giant ghetto. You don't need to look at the school curricula. Just look at what Israelis at all levels are saying, from the soldiers on the ground up all the way up to the Prime Minister and President. The amount of genocidal rhetoric is shocking, especially coming from a country that makes the Holocaust such a central part of its raison d'être.
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
    > You cannot commit genocide through rhetoric Maybe you've missed this, but Israel has killed tens of thousands of Palestinians and has laid utter waste to Gaza. But genocide also requires intent, and Israelis have loudly broadcast that intent to the world. > They are taught to hate Jews from the start. No, they aren't. They learn to hate Israelis through bitter experience. If you live under a foreign military occupation, with constant humiliation by foreign soldiers on your territory, with foreign settlers stealing more and more of your land, and with that foreign military killing tens of thousands of your countrymen, nobody has to teach you to hate that foreign country. It's actually amazing that UNRWA has managed to set up such a politically neutral education system under these circumstances. Palestinians don't hate Jews. If you're Jewish, you can go to the West Bank. People will be friendly to you if you're sympathetic to their situation. What they don't like is Israel, the country that controls their lives and oppresses them day in and day out.
    - raxxorraxor 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
        A country that holds millions of people under permanent military occupation is the aggressor. > you just have to read it up as it is written down. I'm trying to parse this. The grammar is English, but it appears to have no meaning
        raxxorraxor 2y ago
        So basically you believe the attacks on Israel and that they still hold hostages is justified?
        DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
        So basically you believe that Israel's decades-long military rule over millions of Palestinians is justified?