3 ms·

Requesting someone to please explain the "coquina" metaphor.

hecanjog 2y ago
I think that they're saying a little bit of playing around with replacing thinking and composing with automated tools is recoverable, but at an industrial or societal scale the damage is significant. Like the difference between shoveling away some sand with your hands to bury the small creatures temporarily and actually destroying their habitat by "lobbying city council members to put in a groin or seawall, and seriously move that beach sand."
- profsummergig 2y ago
  I skimmed the Anthropic report and didn't catch the negative effects. Did they mention any? Good on them if they did.
  - hecanjog 2y ago
    Yes, they mention a few times the concern that students are offloading critical thinking rather than using the tool for learning.
    - Cthulhu_ 2y ago
      I just hope the educational institutions catch on, stick with their principles and don't give them the paperwork. The paper / title should be evidence of students' learning and thinking abilities, not of just their output.
xmprt 2y ago
My understanding is that the author is this superior being trying to accomplish a massive task (damming a beach) while knowing that it could cause problems for these clams. In the real world, Anthropic is trying to accomplish a massive task (building AGI) and they're finally starting to notice the potential impacts this has on people.
jjcob 2y ago
Coquinas are clams that bury themselves in the sand very close to the surface [1]. The author worries that while they are playing with the sand, they might accidentally bury coquina clams too deep and kill them because they can no longer reach the surface. Anthropic apparently is starting to notice the possible danger to others of their work. I'm not sure what they are referring to. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZUlf7quu3o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZUlf7quu3o
- profsummergig 2y ago
  > Anthropic apparently is starting to notice the possible danger to others of their work. I'm not sure what they are referring to. Are they being vague about the danger? If possible, please link to a communique from them. I've missed it somehow. Thanks.
  - vermilingua 2y ago
    https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropic-education-report-how-university-students-use-claude https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropic-education-report-ho... Discussed here yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43633383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43633383
    - profsummergig 2y ago
      Thank you.
- deathanatos 2y ago
  As a child at the beach, I would think noticing the clams would result in attempting to unearth them. Childhood curiosity about why there are bubbles. Your explanation makes more sense, however.
ern 2y ago
Maybe I’m not smart enough, or too tired to decode these metaphors, so I plugged the essay into ChatGPT and got a clear explanation from 4o.
- profsummergig 2y ago
  Ah. Should have thought of that. Going to do that now. Thanks.
- criddell 2y ago
  Are you at all concerned that plugging stuff like this into ChatGPT is leaving you with weaker cognitive muscles? Or is it more similar to what people do when they see a new word and reach for their dictionary?
  - adwn 2y ago
    > Are you at all concerned that plugging stuff like this into ChatGPT is leaving you with weaker cognitive muscles? Couldn't this very same argument have been used against any form of mental augmentation, like written language and computers? Or, in an extended interpretation, against any form of physical augmentation, like tool use?
    - criddell 2y ago
      You can argue whatever you want to argue. I make my living with my brain so I do worry about the downsides of removing boredom and mental struggle from my days.
      - Workaccount2 2y ago
        It's almost certainly going to be bad, and almost certainly going to be unavoidable. I can't spell for shit anymore. Ever since auto correct became omnipresent in pretty much all writing fields, my brain just kinda ditched remembering how to spell words. buuuttt Manual labor has been obsolete for at least 100 years now for certain classes of people, and fitness is still an enormous recreational activity people partake in. So even in an AI heavy society, I still strongly suspect there will be "brain games" that people still enjoy and regularly play.
cubefox 2y ago
Anthropic (Claude.ai) is mentioning in their report on LLMs and education that students use Claude to cheat and do their work for them: https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropic-education-report-how-university-students-use-claude https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropic-education-report-ho...

I think that they're saying a little bit of playing around with replacing thinking and composing with automated tools is recoverable, but at an industrial or societal scale the damage is significant. Like the difference between shoveling away some sand with your hands to bury the small creatures temporarily and actually destroying their habitat by "lobbying city council members to put in a groin or seawall, and seriously move that beach sand."

profsummergig 2y ago
I skimmed the Anthropic report and didn't catch the negative effects. Did they mention any? Good on them if they did.
- hecanjog 2y ago
  Yes, they mention a few times the concern that students are offloading critical thinking rather than using the tool for learning.
  - Cthulhu_ 2y ago
    I just hope the educational institutions catch on, stick with their principles and don't give them the paperwork. The paper / title should be evidence of students' learning and thinking abilities, not of just their output.

xmprt 2y ago

My understanding is that the author is this superior being trying to accomplish a massive task (damming a beach) while knowing that it could cause problems for these clams. In the real world, Anthropic is trying to accomplish a massive task (building AGI) and they're finally starting to notice the potential impacts this has on people.

jjcob 2y ago

Coquinas are clams that bury themselves in the sand very close to the surface [1]. The author worries that while they are playing with the sand, they might accidentally bury coquina clams too deep and kill them because they can no longer reach the surface. Anthropic apparently is starting to notice the possible danger to others of their work. I'm not sure what they are referring to. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZUlf7quu3o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZUlf7quu3o

profsummergig 2y ago
> Anthropic apparently is starting to notice the possible danger to others of their work. I'm not sure what they are referring to. Are they being vague about the danger? If possible, please link to a communique from them. I've missed it somehow. Thanks.
- vermilingua 2y ago
  https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropic-education-report-how-university-students-use-claude https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropic-education-report-ho... Discussed here yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43633383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43633383
  - profsummergig 2y ago
    Thank you.
deathanatos 2y ago
As a child at the beach, I would think noticing the clams would result in attempting to unearth them. Childhood curiosity about why there are bubbles. Your explanation makes more sense, however.

ern 2y ago

Maybe I’m not smart enough, or too tired to decode these metaphors, so I plugged the essay into ChatGPT and got a clear explanation from 4o.

profsummergig 2y ago
Ah. Should have thought of that. Going to do that now. Thanks.
criddell 2y ago
Are you at all concerned that plugging stuff like this into ChatGPT is leaving you with weaker cognitive muscles? Or is it more similar to what people do when they see a new word and reach for their dictionary?
- adwn 2y ago
  > Are you at all concerned that plugging stuff like this into ChatGPT is leaving you with weaker cognitive muscles? Couldn't this very same argument have been used against any form of mental augmentation, like written language and computers? Or, in an extended interpretation, against any form of physical augmentation, like tool use?
  - criddell 2y ago
    You can argue whatever you want to argue. I make my living with my brain so I do worry about the downsides of removing boredom and mental struggle from my days.
    - Workaccount2 2y ago
      It's almost certainly going to be bad, and almost certainly going to be unavoidable. I can't spell for shit anymore. Ever since auto correct became omnipresent in pretty much all writing fields, my brain just kinda ditched remembering how to spell words. buuuttt Manual labor has been obsolete for at least 100 years now for certain classes of people, and fitness is still an enormous recreational activity people partake in. So even in an AI heavy society, I still strongly suspect there will be "brain games" that people still enjoy and regularly play.

cubefox 2y ago

Anthropic (Claude.ai) is mentioning in their report on LLMs and education that students use Claude to cheat and do their work for them: https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropic-education-report-how-university-students-use-claude https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropic-education-report-ho...