3 ms·

Life in 1850 was definitively NOT "better".

by userbinator 2y ago

codr7 2y ago
This is a pretty meaningless statement. Where? To whom? According to what metric?
- abenga 2y ago
  46% of children didn't see their 5th birthday in the early 1800s. It had gone down by 1890, but still in the mid thirties. Romanticizing those days is extremely silly.
  - codr7 2y ago
    I'm sure there were aspects of life back then that could be said to be better than today. More human contact, more time in nature, less technology, less stress, less pollution and so on.
    - abenga 2y ago
      Those aspects are mostly irrelevant if half of people who are born die before they enjoy them. More time in nature => this is neutral, not necessarily a positive, depends if you like that. Less technology => definitely a negative, I know when I'd rather have been born if this is the only change. Less pollution => Depending on the cutoff, most people today suffer less pollution than then. I'd rather the current global levels of pollution than actually cooking with coal/wood in my kitchen. The latter will probably kill you faster.
OutOfHere 2y ago
It was not that long ago, and I would call "not being headed for extinction" better than the alternative. In the West, plastic use became widespread in homes and with foods in the 1950s. In most other countries it took until the 1980s.
- TylerE 2y ago
  False. Polyester fabric has been in widespread use since the 1920s and was first patented in Britain. Methinks you are using a rather “no true Scotsman” definition of plastic .
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    Polyester use took off in the 1950s and 1960s, but it declined into the 1970s and 1980s. It took off again in the late 1990s. As such, the intervening period that didn't see major use of it was within my lifetime.
    - TylerE 2y ago
      No true Scotsman. You said “before plastic” not “during a lull” and in many case there weee many other plastics in widespread use throughout all those decades.
- userbinator 2y ago
  [flagged]
globular-toast 2y ago
So you're assuming the person you're replying to is at least 175 years old?
- TylerE 2y ago
  They insisted they had been alive prior to plastic being used. Commercial synthetic plastics have been in use since at least the mid 1850s.
silisili 2y ago
One interesting thing I've noticed in my life is that everyone that I've known personally preferred their early life and thinks the world is getting worse. From my great grandparents to me today. And each have their reasons, which sound valid, but probably have a bit of rose colored glasses and yearning for youth attached. So is it that people prefer the world they are born into and hate change, or is life for an average person getting worse in some less tangible respects? Is fondly remembering the family bonding over radio broadcasts worth more than being able to afford every member of the family having their own TV, for example? It seems hard to judge. We often define 'best it's ever been' by the poor being able to afford iPhones and the marginalized having more rights, which are both valid points. But is it better for the majority common person? Are there people who are constantly in awe of how great things are, or are we doomed to miss what we had as kids and focus on the negative? Because I find myself falling into that trap often. One thing that sticks in my head is that as a kid, my dad worked for a soda company and my neighbor worked for Lowes. Neither wife worked, both had 3 kids, and could afford a house and 2 cars. That seems like a fairy tale to young people today.
- varjag 2y ago
  There is familiarity aspect for sure but also that living conditions don't change that dramatically over human lifespan. Life two generations ago was different but not so terribly different as to be uncomfortable to a modern human. However getting used to lifestyles of some centuries ago, let alone back to neolithic would be substantial complication.
- verisimi 2y ago
  The presentation of reality is always worsening, and now there are more means to present than ever. And people are experiencing reality through screens more than ever. But if you turn off the screens, the physical reality hasn't really changed that much. There is some horrible architecture inflicted on us, but then parks and streets are nice/cleaner than in my youth. PS I do agree that the social pressures are worse, with both parents encouraged/needing to work.
  - mandmandam 2y ago

Life in 1850 was definitively NOT "better".

codr7 2y ago

This is a pretty meaningless statement. Where? To whom? According to what metric?

abenga 2y ago
46% of children didn't see their 5th birthday in the early 1800s. It had gone down by 1890, but still in the mid thirties. Romanticizing those days is extremely silly.
- codr7 2y ago
  I'm sure there were aspects of life back then that could be said to be better than today. More human contact, more time in nature, less technology, less stress, less pollution and so on.
  - abenga 2y ago
    Those aspects are mostly irrelevant if half of people who are born die before they enjoy them. More time in nature => this is neutral, not necessarily a positive, depends if you like that. Less technology => definitely a negative, I know when I'd rather have been born if this is the only change. Less pollution => Depending on the cutoff, most people today suffer less pollution than then. I'd rather the current global levels of pollution than actually cooking with coal/wood in my kitchen. The latter will probably kill you faster.

OutOfHere 2y ago

It was not that long ago, and I would call "not being headed for extinction" better than the alternative. In the West, plastic use became widespread in homes and with foods in the 1950s. In most other countries it took until the 1980s.

TylerE 2y ago
False. Polyester fabric has been in widespread use since the 1920s and was first patented in Britain. Methinks you are using a rather “no true Scotsman” definition of plastic .
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  Polyester use took off in the 1950s and 1960s, but it declined into the 1970s and 1980s. It took off again in the late 1990s. As such, the intervening period that didn't see major use of it was within my lifetime.
  - TylerE 2y ago
    No true Scotsman. You said “before plastic” not “during a lull” and in many case there weee many other plastics in widespread use throughout all those decades.
userbinator 2y ago
[flagged]

globular-toast 2y ago

So you're assuming the person you're replying to is at least 175 years old?

TylerE 2y ago
They insisted they had been alive prior to plastic being used. Commercial synthetic plastics have been in use since at least the mid 1850s.

silisili 2y ago

One interesting thing I've noticed in my life is that everyone that I've known personally preferred their early life and thinks the world is getting worse. From my great grandparents to me today. And each have their reasons, which sound valid, but probably have a bit of rose colored glasses and yearning for youth attached. So is it that people prefer the world they are born into and hate change, or is life for an average person getting worse in some less tangible respects? Is fondly remembering the family bonding over radio broadcasts worth more than being able to afford every member of the family having their own TV, for example? It seems hard to judge. We often define 'best it's ever been' by the poor being able to afford iPhones and the marginalized having more rights, which are both valid points. But is it better for the majority common person? Are there people who are constantly in awe of how great things are, or are we doomed to miss what we had as kids and focus on the negative? Because I find myself falling into that trap often. One thing that sticks in my head is that as a kid, my dad worked for a soda company and my neighbor worked for Lowes. Neither wife worked, both had 3 kids, and could afford a house and 2 cars. That seems like a fairy tale to young people today.

varjag 2y ago
There is familiarity aspect for sure but also that living conditions don't change that dramatically over human lifespan. Life two generations ago was different but not so terribly different as to be uncomfortable to a modern human. However getting used to lifestyles of some centuries ago, let alone back to neolithic would be substantial complication.
verisimi 2y ago
The presentation of reality is always worsening, and now there are more means to present than ever. And people are experiencing reality through screens more than ever. But if you turn off the screens, the physical reality hasn't really changed that much. There is some horrible architecture inflicted on us, but then parks and streets are nice/cleaner than in my youth. PS I do agree that the social pressures are worse, with both parents encouraged/needing to work.
- mandmandam 2y ago