7 ms·

Deno Under TinyKVM in Varnish

100 points by perbu 1y ago

perbu 1y ago
TinyKVM is now integrated into Varnish Cache Deno has been ported to run inside it.
ksimukka 1y ago
“inline CSS wizardry by my friend Kyle” Thank you for the kind words my friend. I enjoyed contributing to TinyKVM during my time at Varnish Software. It is nice to see that you are able to present and share it with the community.
Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
Great post as usual! Tinykvm is going to be the future
d0100 1y ago
I am looking for a Deno sandbox and this seems like a good idea. Is there code available anywhere of this implementation?
- fwsgonzo 1y ago
  https://github.com/lrowe/deno_varnish https://github.com/lrowe/deno_varnish It's very much still a work-in-progress. But it works! The main plugin repo is here: https://github.com/varnish/libvmod-tinykvm https://github.com/varnish/libvmod-tinykvm
  - mdaniel 1y ago
    It would be awesome if that deno_varnish repo had a license to know who can use it under what circumstances
    - laurencerowe 1y ago
      It's not really usable yet beyond benchmarking as I've been focussed on understanding the performance characteristics. I will add a license (hopefully MIT like Deno) once there is clarity around the licensing of the TinyKVM guest API files.
      - ruben_varnish 1y ago
        Let us get back to you on that. Leaning towards making the modules/examples permissive, indeed.
CoolCold 1y ago
Nowadays I almost have zero intersection with Varnish - my own impression it was much more popular like 10 years ago or even more. I know couple of frameworks/systems support it, especially in php world. Looks like that it's lost in layers - dev guys don't care much, sysadmins are sort of extincted, noone to bother to add Varnish into request processing queue. Needless to say, people ok HN even complain on Nginx configs,while for base caching it's much simpler, from my perspective.
- jesterson 1y ago
  Varnish is amazing. Nowadays people blow up projects with kubernetes, JS frameworks, million other tools, while the same can be achieved with varnish+nginx with much less efforts.
  - Twirrim 1y ago
    Don't forget all those interconnected microservices, so that every request has to be handled by dozens of machines with lots of json flying everywhere eating up CPU time that could have been spent actually carrying out the business logic instead.
  - ruben_varnish 1y ago
    Imagine having all that being run by Varnish as the data plane? Do you think the whole MACH stack users would then move their workload to such a controller/ingress/gateway? I think they wouldn't, because they don't necessarily understand (or need?) the advantages of caching at scale and flexibility that Varnish provides. But if you say that you will accelerate everything in their K8s cluster... Then maybe ;) We'll see. I have a wish for Kubecon in Q4
- atonse 1y ago
  I had to scale a high profile Wordpress site during the pandemic. It got huge spikes daily during a press conference. It got 150k hits per second. Apart from moving it from windows to Linux, I put it in front of varnish and spent a few hours tweaking the config to make sure everything still worked. It was my first time using varnish so it took longer. It performed flawlessly for years. Varnish was a real workhorse.
mmastrac 1y ago
These posts from Varnish initially confused me because the only Varnish project I had heard of was a cache/accelerator like nginx. TinyKVM is an impressive marvel and I wonder if it would help to separate the branding from the older name.
- ruben_varnish 1y ago
  TinyKVM is certainly technology that in itself is rather groundbreaking, but it is obviously even more powerful in the context of request handling at lightning speed. But you are right it could be used for other things. Would you have read this if neither Deno, Varnish or TinyKVM would have been in the title? ;) But we hear you. Will put a page on our website and should probably consider seeing up a community site as well as it is indeed, grabbing some attention.
  - mmastrac 1y ago
    I would definitely consider growing the TinyKVM brand!
johnbellone 1y ago
This is pretty damn sweet.
codethief 1y ago
In case anyone from Varnish is around, possibly even the author himself: Last time we discussed TinyKVM here, I wanted to know[0] whether it could possibly be used as an OCI container runtime and what capabilities it would need? Background: I would like to use it as a runtime in order to allow for nesting containers in my CI pipelines, which is difficult with standard OCI runtimes like runc/crun without granting them privileges or at least additional capabilities that AppArmor is not happy about. Anyway, I'd still be very much interested in an answer! :) [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43364218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43364218
- antoniomika 1y ago
  Check out sysbox[0], it's a runc based runtime that allows you to run "system" containers without privilege. [0]: https://github.com/nestybox/sysbox https://github.com/nestybox/sysbox
  - codethief 1y ago
    Thanks, I've come across sysbox before. But it seems it's become relatively quiet since it's gotten acquired by Docker? Moreover, I've yet to hear of anyone who has been using it in production.
- laurencerowe 1y ago
  As I understand it TinyKVM is so fast because it does not run a full Linux guest but rather a thin layer with just enough syscall compatibility to run single threaded Linux static binaries. I’ve been running varnish/tinykvm using podman by using passing /dev/kvm into the container and adding myself to the kvm group. https://github.com/lrowe/deno_varnish?tab=readme-ov-file#running-inside-varnish-tinykvm https://github.com/lrowe/deno_varnish?tab=readme-ov-file#run... Maybe you would be better off with something like krun which is built to run OCI containers in a full Linux kvm guest. https://josecastillolema.github.io/podman-wasm-libkrun/ https://josecastillolema.github.io/podman-wasm-libkrun/
- ruben_varnish 1y ago
  Sorry for not replying. But good to see you got your answer in the end. Tip, Although not entirely what you asked, but related: what about using more caving in your CI/CD Pipeline. Customers see incredible time savings when using Varnish on that context (mostly with Enterprise w/MSE4 as you will need a massive cache, but it can be useful even with Varnish Cache grounding on your pipeline and workflow). If you are interested, read more here: https://www.varnish-software.com/solutions/data-ai-acceleration/devops-artifact-software-distribution/ https://www.varnish-software.com/solutions/data-ai-accelerat...
curtisszmania 1y ago
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100 points by perbu 1y ago

TinyKVM is now integrated into Varnish Cache Deno has been ported to run inside it.

“inline CSS wizardry by my friend Kyle” Thank you for the kind words my friend. I enjoyed contributing to TinyKVM during my time at Varnish Software. It is nice to see that you are able to present and share it with the community.

Imustaskforhelp 1y ago

Great post as usual! Tinykvm is going to be the future

d0100 1y ago

I am looking for a Deno sandbox and this seems like a good idea. Is there code available anywhere of this implementation?

fwsgonzo 1y ago
https://github.com/lrowe/deno_varnish https://github.com/lrowe/deno_varnish It's very much still a work-in-progress. But it works! The main plugin repo is here: https://github.com/varnish/libvmod-tinykvm https://github.com/varnish/libvmod-tinykvm
- mdaniel 1y ago
  It would be awesome if that deno_varnish repo had a license to know who can use it under what circumstances
  - laurencerowe 1y ago
    It's not really usable yet beyond benchmarking as I've been focussed on understanding the performance characteristics. I will add a license (hopefully MIT like Deno) once there is clarity around the licensing of the TinyKVM guest API files.
    - ruben_varnish 1y ago
      Let us get back to you on that. Leaning towards making the modules/examples permissive, indeed.

CoolCold 1y ago

Nowadays I almost have zero intersection with Varnish - my own impression it was much more popular like 10 years ago or even more. I know couple of frameworks/systems support it, especially in php world. Looks like that it's lost in layers - dev guys don't care much, sysadmins are sort of extincted, noone to bother to add Varnish into request processing queue. Needless to say, people ok HN even complain on Nginx configs,while for base caching it's much simpler, from my perspective.

jesterson 1y ago
Varnish is amazing. Nowadays people blow up projects with kubernetes, JS frameworks, million other tools, while the same can be achieved with varnish+nginx with much less efforts.
- Twirrim 1y ago
  Don't forget all those interconnected microservices, so that every request has to be handled by dozens of machines with lots of json flying everywhere eating up CPU time that could have been spent actually carrying out the business logic instead.
- ruben_varnish 1y ago
  Imagine having all that being run by Varnish as the data plane? Do you think the whole MACH stack users would then move their workload to such a controller/ingress/gateway? I think they wouldn't, because they don't necessarily understand (or need?) the advantages of caching at scale and flexibility that Varnish provides. But if you say that you will accelerate everything in their K8s cluster... Then maybe ;) We'll see. I have a wish for Kubecon in Q4
atonse 1y ago
I had to scale a high profile Wordpress site during the pandemic. It got huge spikes daily during a press conference. It got 150k hits per second. Apart from moving it from windows to Linux, I put it in front of varnish and spent a few hours tweaking the config to make sure everything still worked. It was my first time using varnish so it took longer. It performed flawlessly for years. Varnish was a real workhorse.

mmastrac 1y ago

These posts from Varnish initially confused me because the only Varnish project I had heard of was a cache/accelerator like nginx. TinyKVM is an impressive marvel and I wonder if it would help to separate the branding from the older name.

ruben_varnish 1y ago
TinyKVM is certainly technology that in itself is rather groundbreaking, but it is obviously even more powerful in the context of request handling at lightning speed. But you are right it could be used for other things. Would you have read this if neither Deno, Varnish or TinyKVM would have been in the title? ;) But we hear you. Will put a page on our website and should probably consider seeing up a community site as well as it is indeed, grabbing some attention.
- mmastrac 1y ago
  I would definitely consider growing the TinyKVM brand!

johnbellone 1y ago

This is pretty damn sweet.

codethief 1y ago

In case anyone from Varnish is around, possibly even the author himself: Last time we discussed TinyKVM here, I wanted to know[0] whether it could possibly be used as an OCI container runtime and what capabilities it would need? Background: I would like to use it as a runtime in order to allow for nesting containers in my CI pipelines, which is difficult with standard OCI runtimes like runc/crun without granting them privileges or at least additional capabilities that AppArmor is not happy about. Anyway, I'd still be very much interested in an answer! :) [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43364218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43364218

antoniomika 1y ago
Check out sysbox[0], it's a runc based runtime that allows you to run "system" containers without privilege. [0]: https://github.com/nestybox/sysbox https://github.com/nestybox/sysbox
- codethief 1y ago
  Thanks, I've come across sysbox before. But it seems it's become relatively quiet since it's gotten acquired by Docker? Moreover, I've yet to hear of anyone who has been using it in production.
laurencerowe 1y ago
As I understand it TinyKVM is so fast because it does not run a full Linux guest but rather a thin layer with just enough syscall compatibility to run single threaded Linux static binaries. I’ve been running varnish/tinykvm using podman by using passing /dev/kvm into the container and adding myself to the kvm group. https://github.com/lrowe/deno_varnish?tab=readme-ov-file#running-inside-varnish-tinykvm https://github.com/lrowe/deno_varnish?tab=readme-ov-file#run... Maybe you would be better off with something like krun which is built to run OCI containers in a full Linux kvm guest. https://josecastillolema.github.io/podman-wasm-libkrun/ https://josecastillolema.github.io/podman-wasm-libkrun/
ruben_varnish 1y ago
Sorry for not replying. But good to see you got your answer in the end. Tip, Although not entirely what you asked, but related: what about using more caving in your CI/CD Pipeline. Customers see incredible time savings when using Varnish on that context (mostly with Enterprise w/MSE4 as you will need a massive cache, but it can be useful even with Varnish Cache grounding on your pipeline and workflow). If you are interested, read more here: https://www.varnish-software.com/solutions/data-ai-acceleration/devops-artifact-software-distribution/ https://www.varnish-software.com/solutions/data-ai-accelerat...

curtisszmania 1y ago

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