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There's a car company that runs in vegas that does exactly that. You rent the car for a few hours and it will be driven up to you by a remote driver and then wh

There's a car company that runs in vegas that does exactly that. You rent the car for a few hours and it will be driven up to you by a remote driver and then when you're done it'll drive off remotely. No AI needed.

AStonesThrow 2y ago
> driven up to you by a remote driver This is hopefully illegal and not actually what is done, because I have learned from Waymo that it is not permissible or even possible for the CS reps to remotely drive the car. They merely push "suggestion" commands to be considered by the onboard Waymo Driver. Remote human drivers have too much latency and not enough realtime information available to "drive" a vehicle on public roads.
- xeromal 2y ago
  * https://halo.car/ https://halo.car/ * https://vay.io/ https://vay.io/
  - kfarr 2y ago
    Wow thanks for sharing. I genuinely didn’t think this was legal.
    - xeromal 2y ago
      Yeah I was surprised too when they handed me a voucher when I left a hotel last time I was there. Really cool concept. I wasn't able to use it because it was only on iPhone
    - fc417fc802 2y ago
      From the second link: > In the event of an emergency, the vehicle automatically puts itself into a safe state within milliseconds by coming to a safe stop in the same lane. It sounds to me like the hardware has some amount of autonomy. They just aren't trying to do the high level stuff. Both companies seem like they're trying to hide the implementation details though which immediately makes me suspicious of them.
  - solidsnack9000 2y ago
    I wonder where the remote drivers are? If they were in Vegas, latency could be very low -- but if they are in Berlin...
    - dheera 2y ago
      They wouldn't be in Berlin, you want to go to cheaper labor places than Las Vegas, which are plentiful in the US, and even more plentiful in Mexico if you want reasonably low latency to the US. I'd be more concerned about the remote driver's internet connection crapping out. The car probably has multiple simultaneous cellular connections (e.g. PepLink SpeedFusion hot failover type thing).
    - AStonesThrow 2y ago
      It’s not merely about latency, but you also need to consider that any ‘remote driver‘ will have less telemetry, and of a lower quality, than an onboard AI driver. A human operator wouldn’t even be able to read or interpret the types of data which would be collected and sent by a vehicle such as a FSD Tesla or a Waymo. Now as I understand it, military forces are really good at remotely operated drones/UAVs so perhaps the tech does exist in parallel, but those are two distinct applications.
- andoando 2y ago
  If the drivers are local were looking at less than 100ms latency? Seems very doable. More worried about the system going down.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - nylonstrung 2y ago
    Still seems dangerous to me- 60-100ms increase in reaction time is equivalent to driving drunk At 70 mph you'd traverse the full length of a car before the brake kicks in
    - AStonesThrow 2y ago
      Oh well you’re assuming now that each remote human “vay.io” operator is only simultaneously responsible for only one vehicle at a time? Furthermore, that’s a brand-confusion name they’re d/b/a. “Veyo” is a very well established ride sharing provider, based in San Diego, and specializing in human drivers for NEMT. Come, Mister Tally-Mon, Tally Me Banana: Daylight Come And Me Wann’ Go Home
nylonstrung 2y ago
Doesn't latency make this dangerous? At a BAC of 0.08 (legal limit in US) drivers have reaction time delayed by only 60-120ms but crash risk is 10x compared to sober Lack of depth perception probably compounds this?
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > At a BAC of 0.08 (legal limit in US) drivers have reaction time delayed by only 60-120ms but crash risk is 10x compared to sober I'm not sure that slower reaction times are the only effect of alcohol consumption.
  - ty6853 2y ago
    Sure, the other effects is that they're much more likely to be driving at night, overextended their waking hours, distracted by friends / a date / a prostitute, and driving a route that they do not normally drive. How could you not be 10x more likely to crash than the nurse getting off at 2am who has driven the route a thousand times and knows all the bad blind spots / bad intersections / is still well within her normal waking hours. That is much closer to the normal profile of the sober people who are out driving during prime drinking hours.
- mminer237 2y ago
  Even 100ms slower reaction times doesn't put most people outside the normal range: https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/133421/fnhum-09-00193-HTML/image_m/fnhum-09-00193-g002.jpg https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/133421/fnhum-09-0... If that was too much, we wouldn't let people in their 50s drive.
- mring33621 2y ago
  Have you seen the 'latency' of the average driver on the road these days? Most people appear to take about 2 seconds to respond to any change in conditions.

AStonesThrow 2y ago

> driven up to you by a remote driver This is hopefully illegal and not actually what is done, because I have learned from Waymo that it is not permissible or even possible for the CS reps to remotely drive the car. They merely push "suggestion" commands to be considered by the onboard Waymo Driver. Remote human drivers have too much latency and not enough realtime information available to "drive" a vehicle on public roads.

xeromal 2y ago
* https://halo.car/ https://halo.car/ * https://vay.io/ https://vay.io/
- kfarr 2y ago
  Wow thanks for sharing. I genuinely didn’t think this was legal.
  - xeromal 2y ago
    Yeah I was surprised too when they handed me a voucher when I left a hotel last time I was there. Really cool concept. I wasn't able to use it because it was only on iPhone
  - fc417fc802 2y ago
    From the second link: > In the event of an emergency, the vehicle automatically puts itself into a safe state within milliseconds by coming to a safe stop in the same lane. It sounds to me like the hardware has some amount of autonomy. They just aren't trying to do the high level stuff. Both companies seem like they're trying to hide the implementation details though which immediately makes me suspicious of them.
- solidsnack9000 2y ago
  I wonder where the remote drivers are? If they were in Vegas, latency could be very low -- but if they are in Berlin...
  - dheera 2y ago
    They wouldn't be in Berlin, you want to go to cheaper labor places than Las Vegas, which are plentiful in the US, and even more plentiful in Mexico if you want reasonably low latency to the US. I'd be more concerned about the remote driver's internet connection crapping out. The car probably has multiple simultaneous cellular connections (e.g. PepLink SpeedFusion hot failover type thing).
  - AStonesThrow 2y ago
    It’s not merely about latency, but you also need to consider that any ‘remote driver‘ will have less telemetry, and of a lower quality, than an onboard AI driver. A human operator wouldn’t even be able to read or interpret the types of data which would be collected and sent by a vehicle such as a FSD Tesla or a Waymo. Now as I understand it, military forces are really good at remotely operated drones/UAVs so perhaps the tech does exist in parallel, but those are two distinct applications.
andoando 2y ago
If the drivers are local were looking at less than 100ms latency? Seems very doable. More worried about the system going down.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- nylonstrung 2y ago
  Still seems dangerous to me- 60-100ms increase in reaction time is equivalent to driving drunk At 70 mph you'd traverse the full length of a car before the brake kicks in
  - AStonesThrow 2y ago
    Oh well you’re assuming now that each remote human “vay.io” operator is only simultaneously responsible for only one vehicle at a time? Furthermore, that’s a brand-confusion name they’re d/b/a. “Veyo” is a very well established ride sharing provider, based in San Diego, and specializing in human drivers for NEMT. Come, Mister Tally-Mon, Tally Me Banana: Daylight Come And Me Wann’ Go Home

nylonstrung 2y ago

Doesn't latency make this dangerous? At a BAC of 0.08 (legal limit in US) drivers have reaction time delayed by only 60-120ms but crash risk is 10x compared to sober Lack of depth perception probably compounds this?

thaumasiotes 2y ago
> At a BAC of 0.08 (legal limit in US) drivers have reaction time delayed by only 60-120ms but crash risk is 10x compared to sober I'm not sure that slower reaction times are the only effect of alcohol consumption.
- ty6853 2y ago
  Sure, the other effects is that they're much more likely to be driving at night, overextended their waking hours, distracted by friends / a date / a prostitute, and driving a route that they do not normally drive. How could you not be 10x more likely to crash than the nurse getting off at 2am who has driven the route a thousand times and knows all the bad blind spots / bad intersections / is still well within her normal waking hours. That is much closer to the normal profile of the sober people who are out driving during prime drinking hours.
mminer237 2y ago
Even 100ms slower reaction times doesn't put most people outside the normal range: https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/133421/fnhum-09-00193-HTML/image_m/fnhum-09-00193-g002.jpg https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/133421/fnhum-09-0... If that was too much, we wouldn't let people in their 50s drive.
mring33621 2y ago
Have you seen the 'latency' of the average driver on the road these days? Most people appear to take about 2 seconds to respond to any change in conditions.