4 ms·

Yeah that's exactly the part that is so hard to quantify -- the liberal arts component. The purpose of all gen eds is basically to "open your mind", ie. to ref

by aik 14y ago

Yeah that's exactly the part that is so hard to quantify -- the liberal arts component. The purpose of all gen eds is basically to "open your mind", ie. to refine you as a human being. But what high school student goes to college for this purpose? Or a better question, what high school student truly knows that, or understands what that means? The only thing ever discussed seems to be how job-ready you are at graduation time.

Retric 14y ago
I did, I had a rather high IQ, and solid high-school achievements so I could probably gone to MIT etc, instead I went to a small, local, and cheap liberal arts school. One of the things I realized in HS was being a slightly better programmer is not really that important and does not actually make you significantly more money etc. But, avoiding debt and actually having fun in collage is worth a hell of a lot. It took 3.5 years plus ~70k. I did learn quite a lot both from computer classes and the more liberal arts. But, in the end it was the social scene that IMO was the most important part. PS: I did take 23 credit hours one semester just to see what it was like, and even making mostly A's with one B I think I learned more when I had free time than I did cramming in more course work.
- srathbun 14y ago
  That's the way I looked at it. Get through it without a lot of debt and be a big fish in a little pond. I'm smart enough to work on "hard" problems, but the stuff I do now is interesting, and while my gross income is lower, my net income is quite a bit higher.
lsc 14y ago
I love how so many liberals that would never dream of insulting someone for being poor have this attitude that if you didn't go to college, you are some kind of uncultured hick. Somehow beneath all those baristas with hundreds of thousands of dollars of college debt. >The only thing ever discussed seems to be how job-ready you are at graduation time. This is the opposite of what I saw before the recession. Maybe I am hanging out with wealthier people than you are? or maybe you are just too young to remember a time before the recession. I don't know. As far as I can tell, at least until the recession hit, considering how much money you'd make when you got out of college was considered extremely déclassé. College was all about finding yourself and becoming a better-educated person. Only the uneducated, uncouth hicks actually thought about money. How gauche! Of course, now with the recession on, a whole lot more people find it impossible to pretend to not be poor, and actually taking steps to see to it that you can feed yourself later in life are gaining some social acceptance. Personally, I'd say that I learned a very similar lesson to the barista when I bought a BMW during the first dot-com. You see, pretending to be rich is really expensive.
- Crake 14y ago
  Yeah, I tried to warn my friends, but they all looked down on the idea. Now that they're out of college, most of them are working retail. They have no idea how much they owe or when it might be paid off--math is scary, so they just defer and defer and make the minimum payment when necessary. Of course, given their relative inability to comprehend fiscal realities, almost all of them live with their parents. Any free money they have they immediately blow on unnecessary things (trips, designer clothing, etc) instead of even trying to get out from under their loan debt. I really hope that people come around some day, because I'm really sick of people treating me like shit for actually getting a worthwhile degree that'll lead to a career that can pay the bills. Not all of us have parents we can move back in with, you know? But even that concept is offensive to them. People spending money they don't have on useless status signifiers just pisses me off. So irresponsible.
  - lsc 14y ago
    >I'm really sick of people treating me like shit for actually getting a worthwhile degree that'll lead to a career that can pay the bills. you've gotta choose your friends and your peers. I'm not saying you should always insist on friends that accept you for who you are, it can be good to have peers that challenge you, but you need friends that would admire you if you became the person you want to be. A whole lot of the misery of my younger life can be traced back to that. It's not fun to be in a situation where you have to lower yourself in your own eyes to raise yourself in the eyes of your peers. >People spending money they don't have on useless status signifiers just pisses me off. So irresponsible. but... that's a lesson that needs to be learned through experience. Really, that's a big part of why I think the fact you can't get out of student loans the usual way is such a big problem; I mean, when I was that age, making my own stupid decisions, no bank would be idiotic to loan me hundreds of thousands of dollars. And if they were, I'd have ended up bankrupt and the bank would have had to take the hit, as they should, for making such a boneheaded loan.
    - Crake 14y ago
      >It's not fun to be in a situation where you have to lower yourself in your own eyes to raise yourself in the eyes of your peers. That's exactly how I feel all of the time. If I am who I am around normal people, they get all insecure about their intelligence. Technical people tend to accept me and make me feel so at home it's amazing, but they're a very small minority of the population where I'm at compared to the non-tech savvy. I wish I could learn how to interface with normal people better without compromising my identity and interests.

by aik 14y ago

Retric 14y ago

I did, I had a rather high IQ, and solid high-school achievements so I could probably gone to MIT etc, instead I went to a small, local, and cheap liberal arts school. One of the things I realized in HS was being a slightly better programmer is not really that important and does not actually make you significantly more money etc. But, avoiding debt and actually having fun in collage is worth a hell of a lot. It took 3.5 years plus ~70k. I did learn quite a lot both from computer classes and the more liberal arts. But, in the end it was the social scene that IMO was the most important part. PS: I did take 23 credit hours one semester just to see what it was like, and even making mostly A's with one B I think I learned more when I had free time than I did cramming in more course work.

srathbun 14y ago
That's the way I looked at it. Get through it without a lot of debt and be a big fish in a little pond. I'm smart enough to work on "hard" problems, but the stuff I do now is interesting, and while my gross income is lower, my net income is quite a bit higher.

lsc 14y ago

I love how so many liberals that would never dream of insulting someone for being poor have this attitude that if you didn't go to college, you are some kind of uncultured hick. Somehow beneath all those baristas with hundreds of thousands of dollars of college debt. >The only thing ever discussed seems to be how job-ready you are at graduation time. This is the opposite of what I saw before the recession. Maybe I am hanging out with wealthier people than you are? or maybe you are just too young to remember a time before the recession. I don't know. As far as I can tell, at least until the recession hit, considering how much money you'd make when you got out of college was considered extremely déclassé. College was all about finding yourself and becoming a better-educated person. Only the uneducated, uncouth hicks actually thought about money. How gauche! Of course, now with the recession on, a whole lot more people find it impossible to pretend to not be poor, and actually taking steps to see to it that you can feed yourself later in life are gaining some social acceptance. Personally, I'd say that I learned a very similar lesson to the barista when I bought a BMW during the first dot-com. You see, pretending to be rich is really expensive.

Crake 14y ago
Yeah, I tried to warn my friends, but they all looked down on the idea. Now that they're out of college, most of them are working retail. They have no idea how much they owe or when it might be paid off--math is scary, so they just defer and defer and make the minimum payment when necessary. Of course, given their relative inability to comprehend fiscal realities, almost all of them live with their parents. Any free money they have they immediately blow on unnecessary things (trips, designer clothing, etc) instead of even trying to get out from under their loan debt. I really hope that people come around some day, because I'm really sick of people treating me like shit for actually getting a worthwhile degree that'll lead to a career that can pay the bills. Not all of us have parents we can move back in with, you know? But even that concept is offensive to them. People spending money they don't have on useless status signifiers just pisses me off. So irresponsible.
- lsc 14y ago
  >I'm really sick of people treating me like shit for actually getting a worthwhile degree that'll lead to a career that can pay the bills. you've gotta choose your friends and your peers. I'm not saying you should always insist on friends that accept you for who you are, it can be good to have peers that challenge you, but you need friends that would admire you if you became the person you want to be. A whole lot of the misery of my younger life can be traced back to that. It's not fun to be in a situation where you have to lower yourself in your own eyes to raise yourself in the eyes of your peers. >People spending money they don't have on useless status signifiers just pisses me off. So irresponsible. but... that's a lesson that needs to be learned through experience. Really, that's a big part of why I think the fact you can't get out of student loans the usual way is such a big problem; I mean, when I was that age, making my own stupid decisions, no bank would be idiotic to loan me hundreds of thousands of dollars. And if they were, I'd have ended up bankrupt and the bank would have had to take the hit, as they should, for making such a boneheaded loan.
  - Crake 14y ago
    >It's not fun to be in a situation where you have to lower yourself in your own eyes to raise yourself in the eyes of your peers. That's exactly how I feel all of the time. If I am who I am around normal people, they get all insecure about their intelligence. Technical people tend to accept me and make me feel so at home it's amazing, but they're a very small minority of the population where I'm at compared to the non-tech savvy. I wish I could learn how to interface with normal people better without compromising my identity and interests.