3 ms·

Oh come on. I just feel like this is another in a series of "let's indict education" posts. I take issue with everything in here. $44,000 a year for tuition, w

Oh come on. I just feel like this is another in a series of "let's indict education" posts. I take issue with everything in here. $44,000 a year for tuition, why? Why did you choose that school if you had no intention of studying? You can teach yourself more in an afternoon than in a 10-week class? Really, let's prove it. I want to see it. You made basically all Fs but yet you can teach yourself more in an afternoon ... because you're better than others or something? You happen to have chosen a field in which it is very easy to make a modest income, $60K, without actually having very much knowledge (not saying you didn't have x knowledge). I mean, sure anyone that is not slobbering on themselves can probably follow a RoR YouTube and make a blog engine and then know enough to convince someone to pay them >$50K. I don't know how long this is going to last though. But this is not much a real recipe for success in my opinion. The idea that everyone can just teach themselves everything and that no one is actually learning any content in college, at best they are just learning "life skills" is just completely ridiculous. I don't know, not to make another anecdote and I don't have hard data, but I have probably "self-taught" a lot more subjects than most that claim actually have and I wouldn't say I didn't learn any content from CS in college, not even close. In fact, I don't know any PhDs that would say they didn't learn any content (not just this life skills stuff) in college; I think it is just a fanciful notion and probably makes people feel better about themselves: "I'm Srinivasa Ramanujan, I don't need college to teach me anything."

chmike 14y ago
The autor is clearly talking of his own experience. He is not generalizing and trying to convince everybody to drop out of college. My experience is that after 5 years of professionnal activity college is not relevant anymore as long as one kept learning and gaining experience. It is what you've done and accomplished that will make the difference and get you closer to success. Beside 44k$/year + interests is far too expensive for what cellege gives you. I fully agree with the OP. This puts you in the rat race from the start. It will be very hard to get out of it. That's not a path to success. The idea that a college degre is a step closer to success is plain wrong.
- dinkumthinkum 14y ago
  Reread the article, it is exactly what you're telling me it's not (last paragraph). :( Also, beside that point, this is thrice daily conversation, whether it's Peter Thiel, or KA, or whatever the "anti-college" hit of the day is. As far as 5 years of experience ... It depends on what you spent 5 years doing. The $44K/yr is a non-starter. Sure, it's a big waste of money if you get a .33 GPA, agreed. Big deal. That's so much higher than average that bringing this up is sort of a strawman; if that school is way outside of your budget and you're not just dead-set on that school, why go there. That's more than B.S. + PhD for many people. Give me a break! As far as the idea of college being step closer to success being "plain wrong," this is just a naked assertion that is really generalized and kind of ridiculous.
  - chmike 14y ago
    My understanding is that being successful means reaching our life goal. If your goal is to make career in the academic or research domain, than a college degree is indeed a must have and a step closer to your success. Otherwise, it's not and a waste of time and money. Especially, if you think that a college degree provides you a guarantee to get and keep an employee job, or being successful in it, you are plain wrong. The opinion of Paul Graham or Peter Thiel about college make sense when considering the goal they are talking about for which a college degree is indeed a waste of time and money. A college degree is good to become educated in some field, but you are spoon fed and you get all the constrains that come with it.
    - vonmoltke 14y ago
      There is a world outside the software industry, a world in which a college education of some kind is necessary to get and keep a position or strike out on your own. Doctors, nurses, lawyers, accountants, and professional engineers are all required by law or regulation to obtain one or more accredited degrees. There are other fields, such as finance and some government-related positions (such as social work and child education and development) where degrees are not necessarily a legal requirement, but you will not be hired without one. I know too many people get useless degrees. I know people get pressured go to college who should not be going. I know people have unrealistic expectations of what they are going to get out of it. However, software development is a unique case in the professional world in that you can develop significant skills and experience without a formal education, or even a formal job. That does not translate to other fields. Hell, it doesn't even translate to some parts of this field. I found my undergrad to be a very valuable experience, despite not getting any of the "soft" experience. I was a commuter student at a public university in Florida who lived at home and did not spend any more time than necessary on campus. I did learn quite a bit once I got to my major classes (EE), and I got to experiment with multiple aspects of engineering in the presence of very knowledgeable people. I also had a $55k/year job on graduation in 2002. I would do things differently given hindsight, but I would still be going for an undergrad degree.

chmike 14y ago

The autor is clearly talking of his own experience. He is not generalizing and trying to convince everybody to drop out of college. My experience is that after 5 years of professionnal activity college is not relevant anymore as long as one kept learning and gaining experience. It is what you've done and accomplished that will make the difference and get you closer to success. Beside 44k$/year + interests is far too expensive for what cellege gives you. I fully agree with the OP. This puts you in the rat race from the start. It will be very hard to get out of it. That's not a path to success. The idea that a college degre is a step closer to success is plain wrong.

dinkumthinkum 14y ago
Reread the article, it is exactly what you're telling me it's not (last paragraph). :( Also, beside that point, this is thrice daily conversation, whether it's Peter Thiel, or KA, or whatever the "anti-college" hit of the day is. As far as 5 years of experience ... It depends on what you spent 5 years doing. The $44K/yr is a non-starter. Sure, it's a big waste of money if you get a .33 GPA, agreed. Big deal. That's so much higher than average that bringing this up is sort of a strawman; if that school is way outside of your budget and you're not just dead-set on that school, why go there. That's more than B.S. + PhD for many people. Give me a break! As far as the idea of college being step closer to success being "plain wrong," this is just a naked assertion that is really generalized and kind of ridiculous.
- chmike 14y ago
  My understanding is that being successful means reaching our life goal. If your goal is to make career in the academic or research domain, than a college degree is indeed a must have and a step closer to your success. Otherwise, it's not and a waste of time and money. Especially, if you think that a college degree provides you a guarantee to get and keep an employee job, or being successful in it, you are plain wrong. The opinion of Paul Graham or Peter Thiel about college make sense when considering the goal they are talking about for which a college degree is indeed a waste of time and money. A college degree is good to become educated in some field, but you are spoon fed and you get all the constrains that come with it.
  - vonmoltke 14y ago
    There is a world outside the software industry, a world in which a college education of some kind is necessary to get and keep a position or strike out on your own. Doctors, nurses, lawyers, accountants, and professional engineers are all required by law or regulation to obtain one or more accredited degrees. There are other fields, such as finance and some government-related positions (such as social work and child education and development) where degrees are not necessarily a legal requirement, but you will not be hired without one. I know too many people get useless degrees. I know people get pressured go to college who should not be going. I know people have unrealistic expectations of what they are going to get out of it. However, software development is a unique case in the professional world in that you can develop significant skills and experience without a formal education, or even a formal job. That does not translate to other fields. Hell, it doesn't even translate to some parts of this field. I found my undergrad to be a very valuable experience, despite not getting any of the "soft" experience. I was a commuter student at a public university in Florida who lived at home and did not spend any more time than necessary on campus. I did learn quite a bit once I got to my major classes (EE), and I got to experiment with multiple aspects of engineering in the presence of very knowledgeable people. I also had a $55k/year job on graduation in 2002. I would do things differently given hindsight, but I would still be going for an undergrad degree.