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They open with the sharp increase in pedestrian deaths and zero in on fire trucks. Weird. Firetrucks haven’t changed since 2010. Pickup truck expansion, embrac

They open with the sharp increase in pedestrian deaths and zero in on fire trucks. Weird. Firetrucks haven’t changed since 2010. Pickup truck expansion, embracing poor driver controls and visibility, and the abandonment of traffic enforcement has. I think a shuffle of fire department equipment may be warranted as EMS has overtaken fire calls, but accommodation of these things is one of a list of many factors.

HideousKojima 2y ago
The percentage of the population smoking weed has also roughly doubled in that time, as another likely contributing factor
- fc417fc802 2y ago
  Have you ever actually ridden with someone under the influence? In contrast to alcohol (or caffeine, among other things) they're generally much less prone to road rage, much less prone to hurried or reckless behavior, and often somewhat paranoid. At least in my personal experience they're more likely to drive under the speed limit than over it. I strongly suspect that it increases road safety on the whole.
  - HideousKojima 2y ago
    It appears to be less dangerous than driving drunk, but still quite a bit worse than driving sober: https://instituteofliving.org/health-wellness/news/newsroom-detail?articleId=38108&publicid=472 https://instituteofliving.org/health-wellness/news/newsroom-...
    - fc417fc802 2y ago
      I would accuse that article of serious problems due to potentially very misleading statistics. The entire claim comes down to a single unsubstantiated quote. > The odds of being involved in a motor vehicle crash when driving ‘stoned’ are approximately double those of sober driving, but significantly less than the 10 to 15 times increase when driving with a blood alcohol concentration of approximately 0.1, That statistic doesn't account for conditional probability. At any given time of day, the set of people consuming recreational drugs have a significantly different distribution of group membership than the inverse of that set. I am reasonably confident that it constitutes a fatal flaw in this case. > during the pandemic, fatally injured and non-fatally injured drivers “have demonstrated significantly higher overall drug prevalence.” That doesn't tell us anything since what we would need is the numbers relative to trips without incident normalized for historical driving behavior of the individuals queried. (I realize that would be a nearly impossible dataset to obtain. That doesn't make the presented statement correct though.)
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
fc417fc802 2y ago
> Pickup truck expansion, Itself triggered by poorly thought out public policy. > embracing poor driver controls and visibility, Appears to somehow be driven by profit motives. I remain perplexed that it works though.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  Poor visibility is partly regulatory driven partly consumer driven. Gotta have those fat A pillars and high beltline with low seating position to max out that crash test rating.
  - nickff 2y ago
    Window area also adds a lot of weight, which decreases fuel economy.
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  >Itself triggered by poorly thought out public policy. No. There was no policy that required Ford and Chevy marketing to encourage customers to associate "8 ft high front end" with "better truck". Pedestrian deaths are related to vehicle grill height, not weight. We could have the same modern monster trucks with a lower grille and have fewer pedestrian deaths.
  - fc417fc802 2y ago
    Have the trucks in that weight class been noticably different historically? It's not something I've ever followed. My understanding was that people were forced to purchase what was available as the smaller trucks were disincentived by regulations.
    - paddy_m 2y ago
      Absolutely the height of truck's hoods has increased dramatically over time. I say this as the owner of a pickup truck (and a cargo bike). My 2000 2500 has a hood approximately at my belly button. Most current 1/2 tons have a hood height at my nipple (I'm 5'8). A Pillars have gotten significantly thicker too, making it harder to see pedestrians at corners. Then there is the expanding cab and shrinking bed. The visibility in a standard cab truck is phenomenal, you are surrounded by glass. Higher beds are also harder to use, which doesn't matter for most truck buyers because they buy them as a statement, not for utility.
AStonesThrow 2y ago
Something very strange to me in my urban setting is the dichotomy between motorists and everything else on the road. You can really rely on everyone driving a motor vehicle to obey practically every traffic law every time. That is, they stop for red lights, they stay in lanes, make legal/safe turns; they generally stay near the speed limit and don’t egregiously violate it. And they know that driving is a privilege and that violations can cost them their license, which will cost them their job, their freedom and a lot of things. On the other hand we’ve got cyclists, pedestrians, scooters, wheelchairs: all sorts of other conveyances on the road, and they basically ignore every traffic law imaginable. Most of those don’t need licensing, and I’m really not clear on the consequences for breaking laws, but often none at all. It’s not like a judge can revoke your privilege to walk on the sidewalk if you’re a jaywalker, and the state wouldn’t ever financially ruin somebody with court fines, for breaking traffic laws on a bicycle or scooter anyway. So it’s a really crazy situation, for me as a pedestrian, because I can count on motorists to obey laws, but everybody else is absolutely Lord of the Flies / Critical Mass around here. It’s a college town, and so there’s lots of young adults and/or foreigners, and they don’t know the laws, and they don’t care, and they walk wherever they want, and they scoot wherever they want, and they bike whatever direction they care about. And traffic laws be damned. Personally, I’m the slowest and smallest thing on the road, and I eagerly defer to everything else that’s bigger and faster than me. It often confuses motorists when I permit them to enter a driveway rather than walk in front of them. Many motorists are extremely over cautious about pedestrians, and it’s nearly always difficult to convince them that I’m yielding my right-of-way— on foot— and permitting them to do what they want. I greatly appreciate vehicles that signal properly and manifest their intentions so that I can anticipate them, because I often find myself directly watching tires and other external controls, in order to get the best signal for a driver’s intentions, regardless of how they're blinkers are working— especially BMWs...
- goda90 2y ago
  > You can really rely on everyone driving a motor vehicle to obey practically every traffic law every time. That is, they stop for red lights, they stay in lanes, make legal/safe turns; they generally stay near the speed limit and don’t egregiously violate it. And they know that driving is a privilege and that violations can cost them their license, which will cost them their job, their freedom and a lot of things. Where do you live that this is your observation? This is not what I observe in the United States. Speeding is rampant. Distracted driving is rampant. People roll through stop signs and run red lights enough that everyone should watch out for it. > It’s a college town, and so there’s lots of young adults and/or foreigners, and they don’t know the laws, and they don’t care, and they walk wherever they want, and they scoot wherever they want, and they bike whatever direction they care about. And traffic laws be damned. I'm curious what the traffic laws actually are for pedestrians and cyclists in your town. I imagine almost all of them are in regards to interactions with cars, since a pedestrian running into another pedestrian is rarely a life threatening scenario so having a law to enforce pedestrian only traffic isn't a big deal. >It often confuses motorists when I permit them to enter a driveway rather than walk in front of them. Many motorists are extremely over cautious about pedestrians, and it’s nearly always difficult to convince them that I’m yielding my right-of-way— on foot— and permitting them to do what they want. In many places the traffic law is to give pedestrians right-of-way over vehicles at otherwise uncontrolled junctions. Motorists are confused because you're asking them to break the traffic laws.

HideousKojima 2y ago

The percentage of the population smoking weed has also roughly doubled in that time, as another likely contributing factor

fc417fc802 2y ago
Have you ever actually ridden with someone under the influence? In contrast to alcohol (or caffeine, among other things) they're generally much less prone to road rage, much less prone to hurried or reckless behavior, and often somewhat paranoid. At least in my personal experience they're more likely to drive under the speed limit than over it. I strongly suspect that it increases road safety on the whole.
- HideousKojima 2y ago
  It appears to be less dangerous than driving drunk, but still quite a bit worse than driving sober: https://instituteofliving.org/health-wellness/news/newsroom-detail?articleId=38108&publicid=472 https://instituteofliving.org/health-wellness/news/newsroom-...
  - fc417fc802 2y ago
    I would accuse that article of serious problems due to potentially very misleading statistics. The entire claim comes down to a single unsubstantiated quote. > The odds of being involved in a motor vehicle crash when driving ‘stoned’ are approximately double those of sober driving, but significantly less than the 10 to 15 times increase when driving with a blood alcohol concentration of approximately 0.1, That statistic doesn't account for conditional probability. At any given time of day, the set of people consuming recreational drugs have a significantly different distribution of group membership than the inverse of that set. I am reasonably confident that it constitutes a fatal flaw in this case. > during the pandemic, fatally injured and non-fatally injured drivers “have demonstrated significantly higher overall drug prevalence.” That doesn't tell us anything since what we would need is the numbers relative to trips without incident normalized for historical driving behavior of the individuals queried. (I realize that would be a nearly impossible dataset to obtain. That doesn't make the presented statement correct though.)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

fc417fc802 2y ago

> Pickup truck expansion, Itself triggered by poorly thought out public policy. > embracing poor driver controls and visibility, Appears to somehow be driven by profit motives. I remain perplexed that it works though.

potato3732842 2y ago
Poor visibility is partly regulatory driven partly consumer driven. Gotta have those fat A pillars and high beltline with low seating position to max out that crash test rating.
- nickff 2y ago
  Window area also adds a lot of weight, which decreases fuel economy.
mrguyorama 2y ago
>Itself triggered by poorly thought out public policy. No. There was no policy that required Ford and Chevy marketing to encourage customers to associate "8 ft high front end" with "better truck". Pedestrian deaths are related to vehicle grill height, not weight. We could have the same modern monster trucks with a lower grille and have fewer pedestrian deaths.
- fc417fc802 2y ago
  Have the trucks in that weight class been noticably different historically? It's not something I've ever followed. My understanding was that people were forced to purchase what was available as the smaller trucks were disincentived by regulations.
  - paddy_m 2y ago
    Absolutely the height of truck's hoods has increased dramatically over time. I say this as the owner of a pickup truck (and a cargo bike). My 2000 2500 has a hood approximately at my belly button. Most current 1/2 tons have a hood height at my nipple (I'm 5'8). A Pillars have gotten significantly thicker too, making it harder to see pedestrians at corners. Then there is the expanding cab and shrinking bed. The visibility in a standard cab truck is phenomenal, you are surrounded by glass. Higher beds are also harder to use, which doesn't matter for most truck buyers because they buy them as a statement, not for utility.

AStonesThrow 2y ago

Something very strange to me in my urban setting is the dichotomy between motorists and everything else on the road. You can really rely on everyone driving a motor vehicle to obey practically every traffic law every time. That is, they stop for red lights, they stay in lanes, make legal/safe turns; they generally stay near the speed limit and don’t egregiously violate it. And they know that driving is a privilege and that violations can cost them their license, which will cost them their job, their freedom and a lot of things. On the other hand we’ve got cyclists, pedestrians, scooters, wheelchairs: all sorts of other conveyances on the road, and they basically ignore every traffic law imaginable. Most of those don’t need licensing, and I’m really not clear on the consequences for breaking laws, but often none at all. It’s not like a judge can revoke your privilege to walk on the sidewalk if you’re a jaywalker, and the state wouldn’t ever financially ruin somebody with court fines, for breaking traffic laws on a bicycle or scooter anyway. So it’s a really crazy situation, for me as a pedestrian, because I can count on motorists to obey laws, but everybody else is absolutely Lord of the Flies / Critical Mass around here. It’s a college town, and so there’s lots of young adults and/or foreigners, and they don’t know the laws, and they don’t care, and they walk wherever they want, and they scoot wherever they want, and they bike whatever direction they care about. And traffic laws be damned. Personally, I’m the slowest and smallest thing on the road, and I eagerly defer to everything else that’s bigger and faster than me. It often confuses motorists when I permit them to enter a driveway rather than walk in front of them. Many motorists are extremely over cautious about pedestrians, and it’s nearly always difficult to convince them that I’m yielding my right-of-way— on foot— and permitting them to do what they want. I greatly appreciate vehicles that signal properly and manifest their intentions so that I can anticipate them, because I often find myself directly watching tires and other external controls, in order to get the best signal for a driver’s intentions, regardless of how they're blinkers are working— especially BMWs...

goda90 2y ago
> You can really rely on everyone driving a motor vehicle to obey practically every traffic law every time. That is, they stop for red lights, they stay in lanes, make legal/safe turns; they generally stay near the speed limit and don’t egregiously violate it. And they know that driving is a privilege and that violations can cost them their license, which will cost them their job, their freedom and a lot of things. Where do you live that this is your observation? This is not what I observe in the United States. Speeding is rampant. Distracted driving is rampant. People roll through stop signs and run red lights enough that everyone should watch out for it. > It’s a college town, and so there’s lots of young adults and/or foreigners, and they don’t know the laws, and they don’t care, and they walk wherever they want, and they scoot wherever they want, and they bike whatever direction they care about. And traffic laws be damned. I'm curious what the traffic laws actually are for pedestrians and cyclists in your town. I imagine almost all of them are in regards to interactions with cars, since a pedestrian running into another pedestrian is rarely a life threatening scenario so having a law to enforce pedestrian only traffic isn't a big deal. >It often confuses motorists when I permit them to enter a driveway rather than walk in front of them. Many motorists are extremely over cautious about pedestrians, and it’s nearly always difficult to convince them that I’m yielding my right-of-way— on foot— and permitting them to do what they want. In many places the traffic law is to give pedestrians right-of-way over vehicles at otherwise uncontrolled junctions. Motorists are confused because you're asking them to break the traffic laws.