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Most articles and comments about higher education commit the gravest sin of thought: they assume what is right for one person (namely, the author) must be right

by jmduke 14y ago

Most articles and comments about higher education commit the gravest sin of thought: they assume what is right for one person (namely, the author) must be right for everyone. I'm enrolled in a public institution pursuing a double major, working two jobs because I'm also middle class. I have a good -- not great -- GPA, and I get to do amazing and interesting things every day; I got into programming after volunteering with a CS major -- I learned about HN, ironically, from my Finance professor. After drudging through a K-12 curricula which routinely belittled the entire point of academia, I get to be surrounded by people who are just as hungry and passionate and brilliant as I am (often, they're more so.) It's unequivocally been the best three years of my life. A lot of people are realizing college isn't a universal gateway to a better life, and that's good -- I don't particularly think it was meant to be one. I'm happy that the author made his way. "College was my biggest mistake?" I'm glad you got out, then. But it sure as hell isn't mine.

aik 14y ago
I'm glad this has been said -- this is very true. I have two comments: >> "College was my biggest mistake?" ...it sure as hell isn't mine. How do you know it's not yours? Or rather, how can you be so sure? Firstly, opportunity cost is an impossible thing to calculate with certainty, especially when dealing with something so incredibly costly both in terms of time and money. If you find yourself reasonably discerning, and learning efficiently what you are out to learn, and enjoying it and life, then great, you're likely in a good place. "Double majoring", having an OK GPA, working two jobs and being middle class -- these all say absolutely nothing about whether you're making a mistake or not. >> I get to be surrounded by people who are just as hungry and passionate and brilliant as I am (often, they're more so.) Now that means a lot, and congrats for finding a place that has such an unusual but hugely beneficial atmosphere!
- sp332 14y ago
  The job lead I got from my college advisor alone was worth the opportunity cost. And the humanities classes opened my mind up in ways wikipedia just can't dream of.
  - aik 14y ago
    Yeah that's exactly the part that is so hard to quantify -- the liberal arts component. The purpose of all gen eds is basically to "open your mind", ie. to refine you as a human being. But what high school student goes to college for this purpose? Or a better question, what high school student truly knows that, or understands what that means? The only thing ever discussed seems to be how job-ready you are at graduation time.
    - Retric 14y ago
      I did, I had a rather high IQ, and solid high-school achievements so I could probably gone to MIT etc, instead I went to a small, local, and cheap liberal arts school. One of the things I realized in HS was being a slightly better programmer is not really that important and does not actually make you significantly more money etc. But, avoiding debt and actually having fun in collage is worth a hell of a lot. It took 3.5 years plus ~70k. I did learn quite a lot both from computer classes and the more liberal arts. But, in the end it was the social scene that IMO was the most important part. PS: I did take 23 credit hours one semester just to see what it was like, and even making mostly A's with one B I think I learned more when I had free time than I did cramming in more course work.
      - srathbun 14y ago
        That's the way I looked at it. Get through it without a lot of debt and be a big fish in a little pond. I'm smart enough to work on "hard" problems, but the stuff I do now is interesting, and while my gross income is lower, my net income is quite a bit higher.
    - lsc 14y ago
      I love how so many liberals that would never dream of insulting someone for being poor have this attitude that if you didn't go to college, you are some kind of uncultured hick. Somehow beneath all those baristas with hundreds of thousands of dollars of college debt. >The only thing ever discussed seems to be how job-ready you are at graduation time. This is the opposite of what I saw before the recession. Maybe I am hanging out with wealthier people than you are? or maybe you are just too young to remember a time before the recession. I don't know. As far as I can tell, at least until the recession hit, considering how much money you'd make when you got out of college was considered extremely déclassé. College was all about finding yourself and becoming a better-educated person. Only the uneducated, uncouth hicks actually thought about money. How gauche! Of course, now with the recession on, a whole lot more people find it impossible to pretend to not be poor, and actually taking steps to see to it that you can feed yourself later in life are gaining some social acceptance. Personally, I'd say that I learned a very similar lesson to the barista when I bought a BMW during the first dot-com. You see, pretending to be rich is really expensive.
- mayanksinghal 14y ago
  > How do you know it's not yours? Or rather, how can you be so sure? Well then how does the author knows that his assessment is the correct one? I agree with the GP for three reasons: (1) I am not a super intelligent, 140 IQed, childhood prodigy who can learn so much faster than most if not all of my peers that I find the courses in my university program slow/unnecessary. (2) I fail at keeping myself motivated for months without direction, peer support and proper schedule. I am more likely to slag off in a side project that I am doing than in a course project that I have to do. (3) I am also more likely to learn things that are absolutely necessary but I personally don't find interesting (Logic Design, for example was one such topic). > people who are just as hungry and passionate and brilliant as I am I think that is largely a function of how good the university is and how likely you are to identify motivated people. I was lucky to find some really motivated people around me who would challenge everything they encounter. I am much more passive than they are during sleep and just observing them struggle to tackle the weirdest problems was worth it. I am of course, not from a US university. My 5 year program (B.Tech. + M.Tech) would have costed me not more than $20K as a large part of my academic expenses are subsidized by our government. But all I can say is that at a good university, neither is this behaviour unusual or is it rare.

by jmduke 14y ago

aik 14y ago

I'm glad this has been said -- this is very true. I have two comments: >> "College was my biggest mistake?" ...it sure as hell isn't mine. How do you know it's not yours? Or rather, how can you be so sure? Firstly, opportunity cost is an impossible thing to calculate with certainty, especially when dealing with something so incredibly costly both in terms of time and money. If you find yourself reasonably discerning, and learning efficiently what you are out to learn, and enjoying it and life, then great, you're likely in a good place. "Double majoring", having an OK GPA, working two jobs and being middle class -- these all say absolutely nothing about whether you're making a mistake or not. >> I get to be surrounded by people who are just as hungry and passionate and brilliant as I am (often, they're more so.) Now that means a lot, and congrats for finding a place that has such an unusual but hugely beneficial atmosphere!

sp332 14y ago
The job lead I got from my college advisor alone was worth the opportunity cost. And the humanities classes opened my mind up in ways wikipedia just can't dream of.
- aik 14y ago
  Yeah that's exactly the part that is so hard to quantify -- the liberal arts component. The purpose of all gen eds is basically to "open your mind", ie. to refine you as a human being. But what high school student goes to college for this purpose? Or a better question, what high school student truly knows that, or understands what that means? The only thing ever discussed seems to be how job-ready you are at graduation time.
  - Retric 14y ago
    I did, I had a rather high IQ, and solid high-school achievements so I could probably gone to MIT etc, instead I went to a small, local, and cheap liberal arts school. One of the things I realized in HS was being a slightly better programmer is not really that important and does not actually make you significantly more money etc. But, avoiding debt and actually having fun in collage is worth a hell of a lot. It took 3.5 years plus ~70k. I did learn quite a lot both from computer classes and the more liberal arts. But, in the end it was the social scene that IMO was the most important part. PS: I did take 23 credit hours one semester just to see what it was like, and even making mostly A's with one B I think I learned more when I had free time than I did cramming in more course work.
    - srathbun 14y ago
      That's the way I looked at it. Get through it without a lot of debt and be a big fish in a little pond. I'm smart enough to work on "hard" problems, but the stuff I do now is interesting, and while my gross income is lower, my net income is quite a bit higher.
  - lsc 14y ago
    I love how so many liberals that would never dream of insulting someone for being poor have this attitude that if you didn't go to college, you are some kind of uncultured hick. Somehow beneath all those baristas with hundreds of thousands of dollars of college debt. >The only thing ever discussed seems to be how job-ready you are at graduation time. This is the opposite of what I saw before the recession. Maybe I am hanging out with wealthier people than you are? or maybe you are just too young to remember a time before the recession. I don't know. As far as I can tell, at least until the recession hit, considering how much money you'd make when you got out of college was considered extremely déclassé. College was all about finding yourself and becoming a better-educated person. Only the uneducated, uncouth hicks actually thought about money. How gauche! Of course, now with the recession on, a whole lot more people find it impossible to pretend to not be poor, and actually taking steps to see to it that you can feed yourself later in life are gaining some social acceptance. Personally, I'd say that I learned a very similar lesson to the barista when I bought a BMW during the first dot-com. You see, pretending to be rich is really expensive.
mayanksinghal 14y ago
> How do you know it's not yours? Or rather, how can you be so sure? Well then how does the author knows that his assessment is the correct one? I agree with the GP for three reasons: (1) I am not a super intelligent, 140 IQed, childhood prodigy who can learn so much faster than most if not all of my peers that I find the courses in my university program slow/unnecessary. (2) I fail at keeping myself motivated for months without direction, peer support and proper schedule. I am more likely to slag off in a side project that I am doing than in a course project that I have to do. (3) I am also more likely to learn things that are absolutely necessary but I personally don't find interesting (Logic Design, for example was one such topic). > people who are just as hungry and passionate and brilliant as I am I think that is largely a function of how good the university is and how likely you are to identify motivated people. I was lucky to find some really motivated people around me who would challenge everything they encounter. I am much more passive than they are during sleep and just observing them struggle to tackle the weirdest problems was worth it. I am of course, not from a US university. My 5 year program (B.Tech. + M.Tech) would have costed me not more than $20K as a large part of my academic expenses are subsidized by our government. But all I can say is that at a good university, neither is this behaviour unusual or is it rare.