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> Is there a serious steelman argument for why it makes sense to reflexively call protests against Israel anti-Semitic? Probably not. I grew up with extreme le

> Is there a serious steelman argument for why it makes sense to reflexively call protests against Israel anti-Semitic? Probably not. I grew up with extreme left-wing parents deeply involved with the Palestinian cause (but don’t sympathize with their views myself). I’ve heard them and their friends express a vicarial, seemingly irrational distaste for the US and Israel infinitely many times. I’ve also heard a lot of terror romanticism, not just for Palestinian terrorists but also the IRA, etc. But I’ve never heard anyone express any animosity towards Jews as an ethnic or religious group. I think I can understand where the misunderstanding comes from though: These are very ideological people with deep seated feelings (hate mostly) connected to those ideological views. Most people don’t think or feel that way, and the closest thing they can relate to is racial hatred. So that’s the inference they make. In Swedish there’s a saying that roughly translates to “as you understand yourself you understand others”. I think that’s mostly what we’re seeing here.

School-Cotton 2y ago
> These are very ideological people with deep seated feelings (hate mostly) connected to those ideological views. Most people don’t think or feel that way, and the closest thing they can relate to is racial hatred. This is a very interesting point.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
Not sure how your personal experience in Sweden with your parents applies other than that the label doesn't apply to your parents. My mom was very pro-Palestinian. She came to it from midwestern U.S. Irish/German Catholic doctrine. It very much had an anti-semitic component in that context. And it became apparent to her when I called out some of the attitudes/things people were saying as a kid. It's part of what caused me to adopt a default 'I'm going to challenge the popular narrative' position even though I'm not jewish, because even my mom unintentionally had accepted it and incorporated it into herself.
- bjornsing 2y ago
  Can’t speak for your mother of course, but I was talking about more people than my parents. A lot more.
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    And I was pointing out it's not really useful to go by anecdotal evidence. Especially to anecdotal evidence from the other side of the world when it comes to political issues in another nation. The midwestern catholic block I grew up in actually makes up more than my mother. Which again highlights your anecdotal evidence/experience/understanding being a Sweden centric view that doesn't comprehensively understands the U.S. centric topic at hand.

School-Cotton 2y ago

> These are very ideological people with deep seated feelings (hate mostly) connected to those ideological views. Most people don’t think or feel that way, and the closest thing they can relate to is racial hatred. This is a very interesting point.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

Not sure how your personal experience in Sweden with your parents applies other than that the label doesn't apply to your parents. My mom was very pro-Palestinian. She came to it from midwestern U.S. Irish/German Catholic doctrine. It very much had an anti-semitic component in that context. And it became apparent to her when I called out some of the attitudes/things people were saying as a kid. It's part of what caused me to adopt a default 'I'm going to challenge the popular narrative' position even though I'm not jewish, because even my mom unintentionally had accepted it and incorporated it into herself.

bjornsing 2y ago
Can’t speak for your mother of course, but I was talking about more people than my parents. A lot more.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  And I was pointing out it's not really useful to go by anecdotal evidence. Especially to anecdotal evidence from the other side of the world when it comes to political issues in another nation. The midwestern catholic block I grew up in actually makes up more than my mother. Which again highlights your anecdotal evidence/experience/understanding being a Sweden centric view that doesn't comprehensively understands the U.S. centric topic at hand.