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Your opinion is wild. Hmm, millions of humans are spending a bulk of their lives plugging away at numbers on a screen. We can replace this with an AI and free

Your opinion is wild. Hmm, millions of humans are spending a bulk of their lives plugging away at numbers on a screen. We can replace this with an AI and free them up to do literally anything else. No, let's not do that. Keep being slow ineffective calculators and lay on your death bed feeling FULFILLED!

hackyhacky 1y ago
You're skipping over a critical step, which is that our society allocated resources based on the labor value that an individual provides. If we free up everyone to do anything, they're not providing labor any more, so they get no resources. In other words, society needs to change in big ways, and I don't know how or if it will do that.
- Ray20 1y ago
  >If we free up everyone to do anything Not anything, but something useful. And in exchange for that useful they'll get resources (which will become more abundant).
  - hackyhacky 1y ago
    Huh? If AI can do any job cheaper and better than a person can, why would anyone hire a person? What "useful" skill could a person exchange for resources in an era when computers write code, drive cars, fight wars, and cook food?
    - Ray20 1y ago
      But you answer your own question: the only situation in which it makes no sense to hire another person to satisfy a need is when that need has already been satisfied in another way. And if all needs are already satisfied... Why worry about work? The purpose of work is to satisfy needs. If needs are satisfied, there is no need for work.
      - hackyhacky 1y ago
        You assume the everyone's needs are solved together. More likely is that the property owning class acquire AI robots to provide cheap labor; and everyone else doesn't.
        Ray20 1y ago
        >You assume the everyone's needs are solved together. No, I am not assuming that. "Together" are not required. It's just combination of needs, ability to satisfy them and ability to exchange - creates jobs. And nothing of this will be thwarted by AI. >More likely is that the property owning class acquire AI robots to provide cheap labor Doesn't matter. Your everyday person either will be able to afford this cheap AI labor for themselves (no problem that required solving) or if AI labor for them are unaffordable - will create jobs for other people (there will be jobs on market everywhere)
        hackyhacky 1y ago
        Okay, so AI will be reserved for the rich, and everyone else will be left to rot in squalor. Got it.
  - jplusequalt 1y ago
    >something useful Where is the existing work these people would take up? If it doesn't exist yet, then how do you suppose people will support themselves in the meantime? What if the new work that is created pays less? Do you think people should just accept being made obsolete to take up lower paying jobs?
    - Ray20 1y ago
      >Where is the existing work these people would take up? If it doesn't exist yet, then how do you suppose people will support themselves in the meantime? Everywhere in human society. "Jobs" is literally when you do something that someone needs, so that in exchange they do something that you need. And in human society, because of AI, neither people’s needs, nor the ability to satisfy them, nor the possibility of exchanging them will suddenly disappear. So the jobs will be everywhere. >Do you think people should just accept being made obsolete to take up lower paying jobs? Let's start with the fact that on average all jobs will become higher paying because the amount of goods produced (and distributed) will increase. So the more correct answer to this question is "What choice will they have?". AI will make the masses richer, so society will not abandon it. Subsidize their obsolete well-paid jobs to make society poorer? Why would anyone do that? So the people replaced by AI will go to work in other jobs. Sometimes higher paying, sometimes lower. If we are talking about real solutions, the best alternative they will have is to form a cult like the Amish did (God bless America and capitalism), in which they can pretend that AI does not exist and live as before. The only question in this case is whether they will find willing participants, because for most, participation in such a cult will mean losing the increase in income provided by the introduction of AI.
      - jplusequalt 1y ago
        >AI will make the masses richer, so society will not abandon it This remains to be seen. Inequality is worse now than it was 20 years ago despite technology progressing. This is true across income and wealth.
        Ray20 1y ago
jplusequalt 1y ago
>We can replace this with an AI and free them up to do literally anything else. I would happily support automation to free myself, and others, from having to work full-time. But we live in a capitalist society, not StarTrek. Automation doesn't free up people from having to work, it only places people in financial crisis.
- dankwizard 1y ago
  They'll get different jobs bud.
  - jplusequalt 1y ago
    Will those jobs pay them the same amount, allow them to have similar qualities of life?
  - hackyhacky 1y ago
    Good idea. I'll give up my job as a programmer/doctor/lawyer/professor to an AI, and instead I'll dig ditches, I guess. AI can't do that (yet).
    - dankwizard 1y ago
      Oh your actual concern is showing - Doing manual labour.
      - jplusequalt 1y ago
        Manual labor in the US pays far less than any of the above mentioned jobs. That's the alarming part--if we're to transition to manual labor and the wages for these jobs stay the same, then workers will be forced to work harder jobs for less money. I'm not sure why you'd expect this proposition to be popular?
        dankwizard 1y ago
        I think you along with some others in this thread are looking at the real individualistic view - "If I go from high paying to low paying, I'm in trouble". Think about how the economy may react along with it. If companies are no longer paying these high salaries, perhaps products and services go down and despite earning less $, your purchasing power stays the same or even grows! Of course lots of speculation, but I am not particularly worried by the fields we can wipe out in future with automation and AI.

hackyhacky 1y ago

You're skipping over a critical step, which is that our society allocated resources based on the labor value that an individual provides. If we free up everyone to do anything, they're not providing labor any more, so they get no resources. In other words, society needs to change in big ways, and I don't know how or if it will do that.

Ray20 1y ago
>If we free up everyone to do anything Not anything, but something useful. And in exchange for that useful they'll get resources (which will become more abundant).
- hackyhacky 1y ago
  Huh? If AI can do any job cheaper and better than a person can, why would anyone hire a person? What "useful" skill could a person exchange for resources in an era when computers write code, drive cars, fight wars, and cook food?
  - Ray20 1y ago
    But you answer your own question: the only situation in which it makes no sense to hire another person to satisfy a need is when that need has already been satisfied in another way. And if all needs are already satisfied... Why worry about work? The purpose of work is to satisfy needs. If needs are satisfied, there is no need for work.
    - hackyhacky 1y ago
      You assume the everyone's needs are solved together. More likely is that the property owning class acquire AI robots to provide cheap labor; and everyone else doesn't.
      - Ray20 1y ago
        >You assume the everyone's needs are solved together. No, I am not assuming that. "Together" are not required. It's just combination of needs, ability to satisfy them and ability to exchange - creates jobs. And nothing of this will be thwarted by AI. >More likely is that the property owning class acquire AI robots to provide cheap labor Doesn't matter. Your everyday person either will be able to afford this cheap AI labor for themselves (no problem that required solving) or if AI labor for them are unaffordable - will create jobs for other people (there will be jobs on market everywhere)
        hackyhacky 1y ago
        Okay, so AI will be reserved for the rich, and everyone else will be left to rot in squalor. Got it.
- jplusequalt 1y ago
  >something useful Where is the existing work these people would take up? If it doesn't exist yet, then how do you suppose people will support themselves in the meantime? What if the new work that is created pays less? Do you think people should just accept being made obsolete to take up lower paying jobs?
  - Ray20 1y ago
    >Where is the existing work these people would take up? If it doesn't exist yet, then how do you suppose people will support themselves in the meantime? Everywhere in human society. "Jobs" is literally when you do something that someone needs, so that in exchange they do something that you need. And in human society, because of AI, neither people’s needs, nor the ability to satisfy them, nor the possibility of exchanging them will suddenly disappear. So the jobs will be everywhere. >Do you think people should just accept being made obsolete to take up lower paying jobs? Let's start with the fact that on average all jobs will become higher paying because the amount of goods produced (and distributed) will increase. So the more correct answer to this question is "What choice will they have?". AI will make the masses richer, so society will not abandon it. Subsidize their obsolete well-paid jobs to make society poorer? Why would anyone do that? So the people replaced by AI will go to work in other jobs. Sometimes higher paying, sometimes lower. If we are talking about real solutions, the best alternative they will have is to form a cult like the Amish did (God bless America and capitalism), in which they can pretend that AI does not exist and live as before. The only question in this case is whether they will find willing participants, because for most, participation in such a cult will mean losing the increase in income provided by the introduction of AI.
    - jplusequalt 1y ago
      >AI will make the masses richer, so society will not abandon it This remains to be seen. Inequality is worse now than it was 20 years ago despite technology progressing. This is true across income and wealth.
      - Ray20 1y ago

jplusequalt 1y ago

>We can replace this with an AI and free them up to do literally anything else. I would happily support automation to free myself, and others, from having to work full-time. But we live in a capitalist society, not StarTrek. Automation doesn't free up people from having to work, it only places people in financial crisis.

dankwizard 1y ago
They'll get different jobs bud.
- jplusequalt 1y ago
  Will those jobs pay them the same amount, allow them to have similar qualities of life?
- hackyhacky 1y ago
  Good idea. I'll give up my job as a programmer/doctor/lawyer/professor to an AI, and instead I'll dig ditches, I guess. AI can't do that (yet).
  - dankwizard 1y ago
    Oh your actual concern is showing - Doing manual labour.
    - jplusequalt 1y ago
      Manual labor in the US pays far less than any of the above mentioned jobs. That's the alarming part--if we're to transition to manual labor and the wages for these jobs stay the same, then workers will be forced to work harder jobs for less money. I'm not sure why you'd expect this proposition to be popular?
      - dankwizard 1y ago
        I think you along with some others in this thread are looking at the real individualistic view - "If I go from high paying to low paying, I'm in trouble". Think about how the economy may react along with it. If companies are no longer paying these high salaries, perhaps products and services go down and despite earning less $, your purchasing power stays the same or even grows! Of course lots of speculation, but I am not particularly worried by the fields we can wipe out in future with automation and AI.