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> cultural super power My impression is that Chinese culture has very little appeal elsewhere (at least in the West). They can't seem to be able to (or care to

by zppln 1y ago

> cultural super power My impression is that Chinese culture has very little appeal elsewhere (at least in the West). They can't seem to be able to (or care to) package it in an appealing way. Sure, they're being catered to in films and video games but I see very little organic interest in Chinese culture, especially compared to Japanese or Korean culture.

ninetyninenine 1y ago
It's true. It's changing though. Wu Kong Black myth and even the top grossing film of last year was chinese animation. See the comments under the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsiAYjyiIBM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsiAYjyiIBM. The film was apparently incredible. The core culture of China is actually foundational to much of Asia. The stuff you see coming out of Japan and Korea is surface level aesthetics built on top of this foundation. You're probably thinking Nintendo, KPop and anime. Once China makes the aesthetics just as good as other parts of Asia I can see China becoming a cultural power house. Even the mythology surrounding China historically in terms of say one thing like Wuxia is better than anything out of Korea, Japan or the west in my opinion. Really in the end people are more attracted to the aesthetic presentation of everything. Japan does this really well while China has always been unskilled, crude and rough on the edges. But this is changing at a nearly breakneck pace.
- zppln 1y ago
  Oh, I think they're already up there with the aesthetics, I just don't find the content appealing. I watched (on Netflix) some Chinese attempt at a Downton Abbey a few years ago, and the production value was through the roof, absolutely insane. But the actual writing was pretty vapid and it's still drenched in propaganda. I've had similar experience with film. Just compare the stuff coming out of Hong Kong today with what came out during the 80's and 90's. Comedy is another thing I don't see go on export any time soon...
  - ninetyninenine 1y ago
    The writing will improve too. I actually don’t get what happened with Hong Kong. Stuff was good then it went bad. But in general it’s expected that stuff will be bad. Generally writing and story telling is the hardest to improve while production and special effects are easier. The great story telling from China comes from its mythology and I feel China hasn’t yet found a method to depict this on screen without being too cheesy, fakeish or over the top. I think this is why animation and video games work here temporarily. China will eventually get its act together.
- grayfaced 1y ago
  If they're selling on historical and folklore how much is that really pushing culture? Is Modern China the same culture as pre-revolution China? Friends, Seinfeld, Sex and the City had actual influence on people on a portrayal of modern New York. What's the equivalent show that has worldwide audiences interested in modern Chinese life.
  - ninetyninenine 1y ago
    None. There’s no equivalent Chinese show. Just like how a while back there was no equivalent industry. It will get there. Follow the trendlines of all the industries and if it matches what happened with the entire manufacturing industry, solar industry, and various other industries it will eventually surpass the US. Right now it’s quickly becoming on par with a lot of stuff in the west. Eventually it will surpass the west. But you also have to note there’s a shit ton of propaganda against China. I’m not even sure where it comes from given that we have freedom of press. you likely have no interest in the good stuff coming out of China likely because you don’t even know about it. Think of it like this. You probably don’t think of BYD at all. Most Americans don’t. But to the rest of the world it’s a superior car to Tesla. And cheaper. It’s like Americans have some propaganda veil pulled over their eyes and I have no idea where it’s from. This absence of consideration of BYD is very similar to what Americans think of China. It’s just a very inaccurate perspective and full of holes. Also a side note. Nobody inside China or Asia really gives a shit about Seinfeld, Sex and the city or friends. I love Seinfeld and friends but that's because I'm American. Outside of this culture those shows are just garbage. You need to look at the things with true world wide appeal across all cultures. Something like Avengers End game, which was an international phenomenon. (I know there's a lot of snobbish types who don't like it and I can understand why as it's not very sophisticated and it is a little too popular) Anyway, China has yet to have something like Avengers End game. Or Star wars even. But out of all the countries in the world, it has the most chance of producing something on par with what America has done.
    - grayfaced 1y ago
      I wasn't making a point about blockbusters though. Star Wars would fail my criteria as well. It's not about money it's about influence. The stuff you listed is the antithesis of that, watered down for a global audience. I'm talking about the "I want to visit CityX" because I saw what it's like and that's my vibe. It's not a matter of growing the industry because it's already orders of magnitude bigger then what it costs to accomplish.
vitorgrs 1y ago
I also had the same thinking, when somehow my mother started watching Chinese TV shows. She first started with kdramas on Netflix, tried to watch a few Japense and didn't liked... then moved to Chinese dramas. And it seems, it's getting really popular here in Brazil. All anecdotical, but I know a few people that watch besides her. Tencent has a streaming focused on international market called WeTV, there's also IQIYI. There's Viki too, that is from Rakuten - that is Japanese, but there's a ton of Chinese content there (which she also watches). My nephew even learned a few words of mandarin (and Korean too) because she keep watching that all day. Kdramas are really popular here, and don't think it's as popular as the US, my guess it's just the soap opera consumption Latin America was always huge, so it makes Asian dramas more palatable, as they are more soap opera style. Now for music yeah, don't think Chinese music is that popular or will ever be compared to kpop.

by zppln 1y ago

ninetyninenine 1y ago

It's true. It's changing though. Wu Kong Black myth and even the top grossing film of last year was chinese animation. See the comments under the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsiAYjyiIBM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsiAYjyiIBM. The film was apparently incredible. The core culture of China is actually foundational to much of Asia. The stuff you see coming out of Japan and Korea is surface level aesthetics built on top of this foundation. You're probably thinking Nintendo, KPop and anime. Once China makes the aesthetics just as good as other parts of Asia I can see China becoming a cultural power house. Even the mythology surrounding China historically in terms of say one thing like Wuxia is better than anything out of Korea, Japan or the west in my opinion. Really in the end people are more attracted to the aesthetic presentation of everything. Japan does this really well while China has always been unskilled, crude and rough on the edges. But this is changing at a nearly breakneck pace.

zppln 1y ago
Oh, I think they're already up there with the aesthetics, I just don't find the content appealing. I watched (on Netflix) some Chinese attempt at a Downton Abbey a few years ago, and the production value was through the roof, absolutely insane. But the actual writing was pretty vapid and it's still drenched in propaganda. I've had similar experience with film. Just compare the stuff coming out of Hong Kong today with what came out during the 80's and 90's. Comedy is another thing I don't see go on export any time soon...
- ninetyninenine 1y ago
  The writing will improve too. I actually don’t get what happened with Hong Kong. Stuff was good then it went bad. But in general it’s expected that stuff will be bad. Generally writing and story telling is the hardest to improve while production and special effects are easier. The great story telling from China comes from its mythology and I feel China hasn’t yet found a method to depict this on screen without being too cheesy, fakeish or over the top. I think this is why animation and video games work here temporarily. China will eventually get its act together.
grayfaced 1y ago
If they're selling on historical and folklore how much is that really pushing culture? Is Modern China the same culture as pre-revolution China? Friends, Seinfeld, Sex and the City had actual influence on people on a portrayal of modern New York. What's the equivalent show that has worldwide audiences interested in modern Chinese life.
- ninetyninenine 1y ago
  None. There’s no equivalent Chinese show. Just like how a while back there was no equivalent industry. It will get there. Follow the trendlines of all the industries and if it matches what happened with the entire manufacturing industry, solar industry, and various other industries it will eventually surpass the US. Right now it’s quickly becoming on par with a lot of stuff in the west. Eventually it will surpass the west. But you also have to note there’s a shit ton of propaganda against China. I’m not even sure where it comes from given that we have freedom of press. you likely have no interest in the good stuff coming out of China likely because you don’t even know about it. Think of it like this. You probably don’t think of BYD at all. Most Americans don’t. But to the rest of the world it’s a superior car to Tesla. And cheaper. It’s like Americans have some propaganda veil pulled over their eyes and I have no idea where it’s from. This absence of consideration of BYD is very similar to what Americans think of China. It’s just a very inaccurate perspective and full of holes. Also a side note. Nobody inside China or Asia really gives a shit about Seinfeld, Sex and the city or friends. I love Seinfeld and friends but that's because I'm American. Outside of this culture those shows are just garbage. You need to look at the things with true world wide appeal across all cultures. Something like Avengers End game, which was an international phenomenon. (I know there's a lot of snobbish types who don't like it and I can understand why as it's not very sophisticated and it is a little too popular) Anyway, China has yet to have something like Avengers End game. Or Star wars even. But out of all the countries in the world, it has the most chance of producing something on par with what America has done.
  - grayfaced 1y ago
    I wasn't making a point about blockbusters though. Star Wars would fail my criteria as well. It's not about money it's about influence. The stuff you listed is the antithesis of that, watered down for a global audience. I'm talking about the "I want to visit CityX" because I saw what it's like and that's my vibe. It's not a matter of growing the industry because it's already orders of magnitude bigger then what it costs to accomplish.

vitorgrs 1y ago

I also had the same thinking, when somehow my mother started watching Chinese TV shows. She first started with kdramas on Netflix, tried to watch a few Japense and didn't liked... then moved to Chinese dramas. And it seems, it's getting really popular here in Brazil. All anecdotical, but I know a few people that watch besides her. Tencent has a streaming focused on international market called WeTV, there's also IQIYI. There's Viki too, that is from Rakuten - that is Japanese, but there's a ton of Chinese content there (which she also watches). My nephew even learned a few words of mandarin (and Korean too) because she keep watching that all day. Kdramas are really popular here, and don't think it's as popular as the US, my guess it's just the soap opera consumption Latin America was always huge, so it makes Asian dramas more palatable, as they are more soap opera style. Now for music yeah, don't think Chinese music is that popular or will ever be compared to kpop.