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Mitochondria doping! People are already thinking how to use it for sports performance. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/14/new-doping-trick-why-scientis

Mitochondria doping! People are already thinking how to use it for sports performance. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/14/new-doping-trick-why-scientists-fear-athletes-already-using/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/14/new-doping-trick... Beyond athletic performance and chronic fatigue, some neurologists and psychiatrists have recently suggested that every mental disorder (literally, the entire DSM) has a single underlying cause: mitochondrial dysfunction. If that's true, mitochondria transplants could solve the mental health crisis.

JPLeRouzic 2y ago
Why transplant? Mitochondria are constantly fusing and fissioning. Wouldn't it be better to provide mitochondria with a more comfortable environment to ensure they fission?
- fooqux 2y ago
  Off the top of my head, I would imagine transplanting gives more control over the end result.
kthartic 2y ago
Re mental health - this is extremely interesting if it turns out to be correct. Thanks for sharing
- SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
  It seems like yet another misunderstanding of a series of complex problems by promising a simple one-stop solution. Maybe it'll work for some things, but it's also making claims that something like PTSD can be sorted out via a mitochondria flush, which doesn't make any sense to me.
  - staplers 2y ago
    You'd be aiding in one-half of the issue though (environment/internal).
    - SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
      Maybe that would help, but the claim is that mitochondrial dysfunction is the source of every "literally, the entire DSM" mental disorder, and that is an unbelievable claim, especially when the DSM runs the gamut from PTSD to Erectile Dysfunction to Caffeine Withdrawal. It says to me that it's a poorly considered claim.
      - perrygeo 2y ago
        You sound very certain of yourself. Yet you cite no evidence at all except your gut feeling. Let's review these so-called "poorly considered claims": (2014) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24845118/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24845118/ "Evidence suggests that alterations in mitochondrial morphology, brain energy metabolism, and mitochondrial enzyme activity may be involved in the pathophysiology of different neuropsychiatric disorders" (2021) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8291901/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8291901/ "we provide a focused narrative review of the currently available evidence supporting the involvement of mitochondrial dysfunction in mood disorders" (2022) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36181925/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36181925/ "Increasing experimental evidence supports a role for mitochondrial dysfunctions in neuropsychiatric disorders. " (2024) https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0149763424003063 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01497... "We summarize the existing literature on mitochondrial dynamics perturbations in psychiatric disorders/neuropsychiatric phenotypes" While psychology today ain't a scientific journal, they provide an excellent summary, providing that evidence is both widespread and well known. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-therapy-center/202405/mitochondria-ground-zero-for-psychiatric-illness https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-therapy-center/2... Dr. Chris Palmer's book "Brain Energy" is a good introduction to the body of research. Dozens of pages of citations, you can judge for yourself how well-considered they are. - "Mitochondrial dysfunction has been found in a wide range of diagnoses that include pretty much every symptom found in psychiatry". "Pretty much every symptom" is not going hard enough. There has yet to be a single psychiatric symptom that isn't theoretically and empirically linked to metabolic dysfunction. The only symptoms he left out were the ones which have no published research! And finally, just this week Forbes had a feature about it. Again, not a sci journal but there's enough interest to name it the "quiet revolution underway in psychiatry". https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessepines/2025/04/05/could-mitochondria-be-the-missing-link-in-mental-illness-12-insights/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessepines/2025/04/05/could-mit... --- Do you still feel that the metabolic theory of mental illness is an unbelievable claim, poorly considered? It may not be THE only answer. But at the very least, this theory is well supported with decades of research and deserves serious consideration.
mbil 2y ago
Dr Casey Means has a thought provoking book on this subject Good Energy. It’s about how cell metabolic dysfunction could be implicated in a wide range of health conditions.
vintermann 2y ago
Doesn't sound like getting them into every cell in the body would be easy. If delivering a package with genes into every cell in the body was easy, viruses would be happy, figuratively speaking. I just mapped mine, for what it's worth. A bit odd to have the whole 16000-something base pairs stored on my computer.
- devmor 2y ago
  We already have mitoviruses, it stands to reason they they might adapt to infect mitochondria that are being delivered to cells.
  - blacksmith_tb 2y ago
    We haven't found any mitoviruses in animals, yet, at least? 1: https://virology.ws/2019/03/28/viruses-that-infect-mitochondria/ https://virology.ws/2019/03/28/viruses-that-infect-mitochond...
    - devmor 2y ago
      We have viruses in animals that reproduce using the mitochondria already, but don’t exclusively target the mitochondria. I believed these were categorized as mitoviruses but I was mistaken.
- eecc 2y ago
  How did you get that (and what guarantees on data privacy?) I’d be very interested
  - vintermann 2y ago
    I used family tree dna. Not really much in the way of guarantees on data privacy as you'd expect (at least not from a software developer's perspective), but I figure it's challenging enough to abuse knowledge of my exact mitochondrial haplogroup, that if someone can do that, they can do worse anyway.
- 2y ago
smilliken 2y ago
> suggested that every mental disorder (literally, the entire DSM) has a single underlying cause: mitochondrial dysfunction On this topic, Brain Energy by Christopher Palmer: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61129785-brain-energy https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61129785-brain-energy . Very interesting book, highest recommendation.
- perrygeo 2y ago
  Read it earlier this year and I agree. Also, he's all over various podcasts and youtube channels if you'd rather watch. What I got out of the book was two things: * Mitochondria are freaking cool. * The DSM is bollocks and metabolic dysfunction explains all mental illness. Despite how radical the above sounds, the evidence for it is overwhelming. The book is largely an accessible tour of the evidence. It's well cited without being too academic. And while Dr. Palmer is a prominent spokesperson for this movement, there are hundreds of other neurologists, psychiatrists and doctors on the same line.
  - amy_petrik 2y ago
    it's a fascinating read however I believe most psychiatric disorders are traced not to the mitochondrion organelle, but rather, the midichlorians
    - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
      äye zännz ä dystürrbnännz in ze forrz
bitwize 2y ago
"Well, eet's no use crying over speeled mitochondria..." --Ren Höek I don't think every mental health issue is traceable to mitochondrial dysfunction. But I'm pretty sure it's implicated in cardiovascular disease. Malfunctioning mitochondria can make your arteries more prone to inflammation which leads to greater lipid deposits. I even read somewhere (sorry, can't cite rn) that a major component of arterial plaques is bits of dead mitochondria.
foxyv 2y ago
All I can think of right now is mental illness being caused by mitochondrial dysfunction and Parasite Eve. With the way the 21st century has been going to far, spontaneous human combustion would just seem like par for the course.
Ericson2314 2y ago
https://www.sir.advancedleadership.harvard.edu/articles/brain-energy-new-hope-treating-mental-health-disorders-metabolic-disorders https://www.sir.advancedleadership.harvard.edu/articles/brai... Ugh, it might be true, but hits all the self-help scam stereotypes, and breathless paradigm-revolution science journalism stereotypes.

JPLeRouzic 2y ago

Why transplant? Mitochondria are constantly fusing and fissioning. Wouldn't it be better to provide mitochondria with a more comfortable environment to ensure they fission?

fooqux 2y ago
Off the top of my head, I would imagine transplanting gives more control over the end result.

kthartic 2y ago

Re mental health - this is extremely interesting if it turns out to be correct. Thanks for sharing

SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
It seems like yet another misunderstanding of a series of complex problems by promising a simple one-stop solution. Maybe it'll work for some things, but it's also making claims that something like PTSD can be sorted out via a mitochondria flush, which doesn't make any sense to me.
- staplers 2y ago
  You'd be aiding in one-half of the issue though (environment/internal).
  - SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
    Maybe that would help, but the claim is that mitochondrial dysfunction is the source of every "literally, the entire DSM" mental disorder, and that is an unbelievable claim, especially when the DSM runs the gamut from PTSD to Erectile Dysfunction to Caffeine Withdrawal. It says to me that it's a poorly considered claim.
    - perrygeo 2y ago
      You sound very certain of yourself. Yet you cite no evidence at all except your gut feeling. Let's review these so-called "poorly considered claims": (2014) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24845118/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24845118/ "Evidence suggests that alterations in mitochondrial morphology, brain energy metabolism, and mitochondrial enzyme activity may be involved in the pathophysiology of different neuropsychiatric disorders" (2021) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8291901/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8291901/ "we provide a focused narrative review of the currently available evidence supporting the involvement of mitochondrial dysfunction in mood disorders" (2022) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36181925/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36181925/ "Increasing experimental evidence supports a role for mitochondrial dysfunctions in neuropsychiatric disorders. " (2024) https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0149763424003063 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01497... "We summarize the existing literature on mitochondrial dynamics perturbations in psychiatric disorders/neuropsychiatric phenotypes" While psychology today ain't a scientific journal, they provide an excellent summary, providing that evidence is both widespread and well known. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-therapy-center/202405/mitochondria-ground-zero-for-psychiatric-illness https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-therapy-center/2... Dr. Chris Palmer's book "Brain Energy" is a good introduction to the body of research. Dozens of pages of citations, you can judge for yourself how well-considered they are. - "Mitochondrial dysfunction has been found in a wide range of diagnoses that include pretty much every symptom found in psychiatry". "Pretty much every symptom" is not going hard enough. There has yet to be a single psychiatric symptom that isn't theoretically and empirically linked to metabolic dysfunction. The only symptoms he left out were the ones which have no published research! And finally, just this week Forbes had a feature about it. Again, not a sci journal but there's enough interest to name it the "quiet revolution underway in psychiatry". https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessepines/2025/04/05/could-mitochondria-be-the-missing-link-in-mental-illness-12-insights/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessepines/2025/04/05/could-mit... --- Do you still feel that the metabolic theory of mental illness is an unbelievable claim, poorly considered? It may not be THE only answer. But at the very least, this theory is well supported with decades of research and deserves serious consideration.

mbil 2y ago

Dr Casey Means has a thought provoking book on this subject Good Energy. It’s about how cell metabolic dysfunction could be implicated in a wide range of health conditions.

vintermann 2y ago

Doesn't sound like getting them into every cell in the body would be easy. If delivering a package with genes into every cell in the body was easy, viruses would be happy, figuratively speaking. I just mapped mine, for what it's worth. A bit odd to have the whole 16000-something base pairs stored on my computer.

devmor 2y ago
We already have mitoviruses, it stands to reason they they might adapt to infect mitochondria that are being delivered to cells.
- blacksmith_tb 2y ago
  We haven't found any mitoviruses in animals, yet, at least? 1: https://virology.ws/2019/03/28/viruses-that-infect-mitochondria/ https://virology.ws/2019/03/28/viruses-that-infect-mitochond...
  - devmor 2y ago
    We have viruses in animals that reproduce using the mitochondria already, but don’t exclusively target the mitochondria. I believed these were categorized as mitoviruses but I was mistaken.
eecc 2y ago
How did you get that (and what guarantees on data privacy?) I’d be very interested
- vintermann 2y ago
  I used family tree dna. Not really much in the way of guarantees on data privacy as you'd expect (at least not from a software developer's perspective), but I figure it's challenging enough to abuse knowledge of my exact mitochondrial haplogroup, that if someone can do that, they can do worse anyway.
2y ago

smilliken 2y ago

> suggested that every mental disorder (literally, the entire DSM) has a single underlying cause: mitochondrial dysfunction On this topic, Brain Energy by Christopher Palmer: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61129785-brain-energy https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61129785-brain-energy . Very interesting book, highest recommendation.

perrygeo 2y ago
Read it earlier this year and I agree. Also, he's all over various podcasts and youtube channels if you'd rather watch. What I got out of the book was two things: * Mitochondria are freaking cool. * The DSM is bollocks and metabolic dysfunction explains all mental illness. Despite how radical the above sounds, the evidence for it is overwhelming. The book is largely an accessible tour of the evidence. It's well cited without being too academic. And while Dr. Palmer is a prominent spokesperson for this movement, there are hundreds of other neurologists, psychiatrists and doctors on the same line.
- amy_petrik 2y ago
  it's a fascinating read however I believe most psychiatric disorders are traced not to the mitochondrion organelle, but rather, the midichlorians
  - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
    äye zännz ä dystürrbnännz in ze forrz

bitwize 2y ago

"Well, eet's no use crying over speeled mitochondria..." --Ren Höek I don't think every mental health issue is traceable to mitochondrial dysfunction. But I'm pretty sure it's implicated in cardiovascular disease. Malfunctioning mitochondria can make your arteries more prone to inflammation which leads to greater lipid deposits. I even read somewhere (sorry, can't cite rn) that a major component of arterial plaques is bits of dead mitochondria.

foxyv 2y ago

All I can think of right now is mental illness being caused by mitochondrial dysfunction and Parasite Eve. With the way the 21st century has been going to far, spontaneous human combustion would just seem like par for the course.

Ericson2314 2y ago

https://www.sir.advancedleadership.harvard.edu/articles/brain-energy-new-hope-treating-mental-health-disorders-metabolic-disorders https://www.sir.advancedleadership.harvard.edu/articles/brai... Ugh, it might be true, but hits all the self-help scam stereotypes, and breathless paradigm-revolution science journalism stereotypes.